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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scottish Government redefines "woman" in law.

162 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/06/2020 08:28

www.gov.scot/publications/gender-representation-public-boards-scotland-act-2018-statutory-guidance/pages/2/

2.12 Section 2 of the Act provides that for the purposes of the Act, "woman" includes "a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment (within the meaning of section 7 of the Equality Act 2010[2]) if, and only if, the person is living as a woman and is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of becoming female".

2.13 To be included, a trans woman without a UK Gender Recognition Certificate or without gender recognition from another EU Member State[3] must therefore meet the 3 following criteria:

  1. have the characteristic of gender reassignment as defined in the Equality Act 2010.

The definition of gender reassignment in the Equality Act 2010 is – "a person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex". This definition includes those reassigning their sex from male to female as well as those reassigning their sex from female to male. A person who meets this definition is not covered by the definition of "woman" in the Act unless they also meet the following two criteria. The person does not need to have undergone any specific treatment or surgery[4]

  1. be proposing to undergo, is undergoing or undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning their sex to female

This element of the definition means that a person with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment is only covered if they are proposing to undergo, is undergoing or have undergone a process to reassign their sex to female. A person reassigning their sex from female to male would not be included in the definition of woman for the purposes of the Act.

  1. be living as a woman

This would not require the person to dress, look or behave in any particular way. However, it would be expected that there would be evidence that the person was continuously living as a woman, such as – always using female pronouns; using a female name on official documents such as a driving licence or passport, or on utility bills or bank accounts; using female titles; updating the gender marker to female on official documents such as a driving licence or passport; describing themselves and being described by others in written or other communication as a woman.

OP posts:
thirdfiddle · 06/06/2020 14:50

So, legally speaking, women are the subset of human beings who choose to call themselves women? That's it? An entirely meaningless category? Bye bye sex discrimination protection, bye bye women's participation in sport, bye bye accurate medical statistics, bye bye protection for vulnerable females. Woman is a club anyone can join, just sign here.
How utterly mind-bogglingly idiotic.

JellySlice · 06/06/2020 14:19

It certainly is!

Everything else is just padding to disguise the starkness of the vision where pronouns, the sex indicator on your passport, the name the bank uses when they write to you, things which are supposed to reflect reality, have instead become the arbiters of it.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/06/2020 13:50

This is quite an interesting read:

excelpope.wordpress.com/2020/06/06/draft-includer

OP posts:
JellySlice · 06/06/2020 13:03

As with all things driven by the trans ideology, the language makes and always challenging subject (law) even harder to follow.

So, if I understand correctly, the Scottish government have issued an explanation of the anti-discrimination laws, stating that it is acceptable to discriminate against women who do not conform to feminine stereotypes. But only when appointing people to public boards.

At the same time, they have diluted the meaning of the word woman to mean both male and female. But only when appointing people to public boards.

So the legal definition of woman currently varies according to the situation. But a precedent has been set to extend this poppycock across all laws in Scotland, and write women out of existence.

Have I understood this correctly?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/06/2020 12:17

@JellySlice

The notes technically only apply to this particular bill

What bill is that?

Does this mean that the definition of woman is different for different laws?

The Gender Representation on Public Boards bill. www.gov.scot/publications/gender-representation-public-boards-scotland-act-2018-statutory-guidance/pages/2/

I'd guess that the statutory guidance, whilst only applying to this bill will now be used as leverage elsewhere.

OP posts:
dementedma · 06/06/2020 12:15

Happy to throw my not inconsiderable weight behind any challenge to this.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 06/06/2020 12:12

Does this mean that the definition of woman is different for different laws?

I'd really like to know this.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 06/06/2020 12:12

Yes, there are comments, Lord, but I had to log in to read them. Mostly 'women are adult human females' or variations thereof.

JellySlice · 06/06/2020 12:02

The notes technically only apply to this particular bill

What bill is that?

Does this mean that the definition of woman is different for different laws?

Lordfrontpaw · 06/06/2020 11:52

It’s an easy fix for getting female quotas - like the Private Eye cartoon ‘if Bill juts identifies as a woman we hit our target’. Oh how we laughed...

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/06/2020 11:44

It has happened. The quotes are from the statutory guidance that has been published. (The notes technically only apply to this particular bill)

OP posts:
JellySlice · 06/06/2020 11:42

Could someone please clarify, is this a proposed change to the law in Scotland, or has it already happened?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/06/2020 11:29

If FWS are really able to bring a challenge I'll get my shovel out too, and encourage family members to do the same.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 06/06/2020 11:29

Hm, actually article is from mid April. Apologies.

Lordfrontpaw · 06/06/2020 11:28

No comments section?

NonnyMouse1337 · 06/06/2020 11:28

It's dated 26th April though.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 06/06/2020 11:24

Article in the Scotsman today: www.scotsman.com/news/politics/demands-change-definition-who-should-qualify-woman-scots-equality-law-2550073

Vdubcampa · 05/06/2020 22:45

What the utter fuck???? A legal challenge may be being mounted lot of offers of financial support to do it from people.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 05/06/2020 22:06

Shovels at the ready! Big shovels! Well, maybe that's wishful thinking. But - earnest if actually quite modest shovels!

NonnyMouse1337 · 05/06/2020 21:49

Oh it would be so awesome if they had a viable case to bring forward for a judicial review!!! Fingers and toes crossed!!

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 05/06/2020 20:35

Looks like FWS are thinking of legal challenge to this. They may need crowdfunder of they do take this to judicial review though. At any rate, those on twitter can raise profile and try to tag in MSPs etc.
twitter.com/ForwomenScot/status/1268967133184172034?s=20

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 05/06/2020 20:21

this is fucking demeaning to every woman

Yes.

howonearthdidwegethere · 05/06/2020 19:57

Write to all 8 MSPs (1 constituency and 7 list). They will be chasing your vote in May 2021, so they might as well know how you feel about the laws they've already passed:

www.parliament.scot/msps.aspx

The only way to sort this nonsense public boards stuff is for MSPs to repeal (I think - not a lawyer!).

LivingasaWoman · 05/06/2020 18:37

What? No. OK this means I am going to have to decide whether I think scottish Independence is more important than my rights as a woman. Because this is fucking demeaning to every woman. If we can’t do anything to challenge this then I will never vote SNP again. I mean it. Nicola has been a brilliant leader but if she doesn’t sort this out I will never again support the SNP.

Bananabixfloof · 05/06/2020 18:17

How do we "live as women"? Wear dresses and make up? Keep the house clean and tidy? Take 100% responsibility for the care of our children? Have nice, feminine names
I thought we were beyond gendered stereotypes now

Its fucking awful. I don't do any of those things, not even having a feminine name, yet I am a woman. How could not one person man or woman making up this rule not think beyond stereotype and stick up a hand and say errrrmmm you know those cunty type women, they might just have a say in what happens within their spaces, few as they are.

I despair at the people who made it into politics without a single clue how the world is made.