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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Munroe Bergdorf makes George Floyd/Black Lives Matter all about Munroe Bergdorf

288 replies

GiantKitten · 02/06/2020 12:05

What MB was cancelled for was not what this is all about, was it?

twitter.com/MunroeBergdorf/status/1267460238678069249?s=20

OP posts:
DidoLamenting · 02/06/2020 21:29

Give your head a fucking shake, the state of it

Are you denying the existence of slaves in Africa? Of the top 10 list of countries who have a modern day slave trade 5 are in Africa.

10 countries with the highest prevalence of modern slavery are

North Korea,Eritrea,
Burundi,the Central African Republic,Afghanistan,Mauritania,South Sudan,Pakistan, Cambodia. Iran

www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/findings/regional-analysis/africa/

On any given day in 2016, an estimated 9.2 million men, women, and children were living in modern slavery in Africa. The region has the highest rate of prevalence, with 7.6 people living in modern slavery for every 1,000 people in the region

JoeExoticsEyebrowRing · 02/06/2020 21:24

It was goady. She can say what she wants but she has no right not to be dropped by L'Oréal.

But then it is shit of Loreal to use the very thing they dropped Munroe for, to score virtue signalling points later down the line.

popehilarious · 02/06/2020 21:16

Ugly the whole threads needs zapping, or individual posts? Not sure what you're saying really because you haven't offered an opinion on the OP yet.

It was goady. She can say what she wants but she has no right not to be dropped by L'Oréal.

If they're now all BLM then I think it's hypocritical.

UglyGlassVase · 02/06/2020 21:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn as it quoted a deleted post.

UglyGlassVase · 02/06/2020 21:08

Jesus this thread needs zapping.

The racism is astounding.

Fimofriend · 02/06/2020 21:03

This reply has been deleted

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RuffleCrow · 02/06/2020 20:42

The thing is, most of what this person has said is true, but when they tweeted it, they weren't angry at other black people being killed by white people, they were angry at bring dropped from an ad for saying something offensive. Hmm

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 02/06/2020 20:40

The capacity to go about your business without being shot by police etc is not a privilege. It is everyone's right.

See ECHR, UNUDHR, etc.

"I'm so bored with the USA" - J Strummer

MrGHardy · 02/06/2020 20:39

"White Privilige" is offensive American bollocks. An absence of social disadvantage is not a privilige, it is everyone's right.

Really? I do argue on social media whenever people bring up racism, and i do think people take it overboard, but ask yourself this, would you rather be white or black in the USA?

To me the answer is clear, and I think that says it all.

TyroSaysMeow · 02/06/2020 20:37

Thanks Goose, have added to the googling list. And on rereading I've spotted my "yeah, I can see that" could have been interpreted with a dodgy tone; apologies if you took it that way; meant it as an expression of wholehearted agreement.

"White Privilige" is offensive American bollocks. An absence of social disadvantage is not a privilige, it is everyone's right.

No it's not. The capacity to go about your business without being shot by police etc is a privilege the American system affords to certain ethnicities and denies others.

One of these days we really do need to have a more general discussion about what the "rights" construct really means in practice.

DidoLamenting · 02/06/2020 20:35

It could be seen as goady but MB isn't the only one saying it, they have a right to say it and not get dropped, and it's something a lot of people need to listen to imo. I agree with MB in this case

It was goady. She can say what she wants but she has no right not to be dropped by L'Oréal.

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 02/06/2020 20:28

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Goosefoot · 02/06/2020 20:18

Yeah, I can see that. Can you recall the names of the Marxist writers you mention? Would be interested to go exploring.

You could try Amin Maalouf, or Adolph Reed. If you follow along from their notes you will find a lot of interesting stuff.

TyroSaysMeow · 02/06/2020 20:04

Agreed on the pretentious angle, Nonny!

We touched on Judith Butler at university and I've been sort of mentally translating ever since. Figured at the time that there must be some sense in there if I looked hard enough; later came to the conclusion that the reason it doesn't make sense is that it fails to adequately account for the realities of sex-based oppression.

It doesn't make sense when you can see the gaping hole that its proponents are missing, ie proper feminist critical analysis of power structures.

NonnyMouse1337 · 02/06/2020 19:43

I find Queer Theory a doddle to follow generally

I'm impressed! I find the writing styles and structure of such pieces hard to follow and pretentious. But that's probably my personal projection!

TyroSaysMeow · 02/06/2020 19:34

I think it's part of something called Critical Race Theory. I haven't researched it much, but I found it similar to Queer Theory in terms of being very convoluted and confusing.

I've just chucked that into google for a perusal after I've put the small to bed. I find Queer Theory a doddle to follow generally so hopefully I'll be able to make sense of it. Thanks for the heads-up on searchable terms!

WhatKatyDidNot I can't see anything you need to apologise for, so I'm assuming you're referring to the content of the recently deleted post?

If race is a wholly separate thing with an existence of its own, OTOH, that protects the capitalist status quo.

Yeah, I can see that. Can you recall the names of the Marxist writers you mention? Would be interested to go exploring.

MrGHardy · 02/06/2020 19:03

If you are a narcissist, you just can't help yourself.

WhatKatyDidNot · 02/06/2020 18:49

I was typing quickly! What can I say?! At least I'm not doing performative outrage. Give me that, at least!

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/06/2020 18:36

24 hr digital clock, possibly?

RoyalCorgi · 02/06/2020 18:27

As they say, a stopped clock is right once a day.

Twice a day. (Sorry.)

Lordfrontpaw · 02/06/2020 18:13

Why was DidoLamenting deleted (if it was the post I think it was)?

Goosefoot · 02/06/2020 18:10

I'm pondering the whys of how this has come about, and I suspect it's yet another example of America's assumption that its own cultural narratives are globally applicable.

I'm not hugely up on this bit of intellectual history either, but some marxist writers I have read who study race in America have said that this has gone back and forth somewhat, between a view of race as an effect or expression or mechanism of class, and then this sort of racial essentialism. So racial essentialism was challenged after WWII, but had something of a resurgence in the McCarthy era before dying down again in the early civil rights era, but then kicked up again at the end of the 70s and into the neoliberal era where it's become the dominant view.

They see that as being a way to avoid challenging class in a more fundamental way, and also as supporting an activist/managerial class that has grown up in many marginalised communities. Because if you understand the material function of race as creating a class of workers for shit jobs, or who will be the unemployed, and that function of class in turn continues to create race as a category, you could begin to act on that effectively by challenging class, or the underclasses could band together to create change.

If race is a wholly separate thing with an existence of its own, OTOH, that protects the capitalist status quo.

DidoLamenting · 02/06/2020 17:34

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ScrimpshawTheSecond · 02/06/2020 17:28

The Beauty Industry (how's that for newspeak) thrives on undermining women's self esteem, on exacerbating anxiety, on creating bullshit impossible models of 'femininity' that require vast amounts of money, time and effort on maintaining.

L'oreal as a corporate entity is performing bang to the script. It must be hard to buy into that concept wholeheartedly, to the extent you make your name and living out of it, and believing in some way it's there to help you, to then realise that it has actually engaged in actively trying to undermine you - but that is literally the business model.

NonnyMouse1337 · 02/06/2020 16:17

I'm pondering the whys of how this has come about, and I suspect it's yet another example of America's assumption that its own cultural narratives are globally applicable.

I think it's part of something called Critical Race Theory. I haven't researched it much, but I found it similar to Queer Theory in terms of being very convoluted and confusing. Confused