Munroe Bergdorf makes George Floyd/Black Lives Matter all about Munroe Bergdorf

"..it because you're worth shit.."

As someone noted above, men try to undermine/silence women by criticising their anger.

Yeah. And (as someone else noted above) MB does that.

I am just totally astonished that no one see the hypocrisy, but that is a different issue I guess.

No one else? Lots and lots of us do see it.

I can see where MB is coming from with that quote. It's more of an angry lash out than an argument designed to move anything forward.

Put it in a feminist context, the equivalent would be "all men benefit from male violence, so all men are violent". I don't think that's true, and it only would only put men on the defensive.

Do people really think corporations, or other people for that matter, actually believe in the spiels around inclusivity and privilege etc?

This has just reminded me of that arse clenchingly excruciating Pepsi advert with Kendall Jenner, eeeeeek!

I'll reserve the right to agree with MB that it's total self serving hypocrisy, though.

What do you expect from a multinational corporation whose entire purpose in life is to make money from women by selling them stuff they don't need? If there's any hypocrisy at all, it's coming from someone who claims to have progressive views aligning themselves with a deeply nasty industry built on exploitation. As a PP mentioned, L'Oreal sells skin lightening products. MB was all too ready to take their money, though.

Yeah MB is right about this, and isn't being goady, just saying how it is with an edge of anger---which they are entitled to. As someone noted above, men try to undermine/silence women by criticising their anger. Let's not do the same.

On other matters I don't agree with or care for MB at all. But on this, they are right and the cancelling was cos we don't want to hear the truth about racism.

L'oreal are suddenly parroting the speaking about privilege spiel because it's fashionable, having jettisoned MB for inelegantly talking about it when it was less likely to add coin to the L'oreal coffers.

Surely, this shouldn't be surprising. Do people really think corporations, or other people for that matter, actually believe in the spiels around inclusivity and privilege etc? Some might do, but the vast swathes of memes and social media posts are not because people are expressing their heartfelt noble virtues, but because it's fashionable and there's social currency among your peers to be 'seen' joining in and saying certain things.

I’m ashamed that this thread was even started. Some of you need to pull your heads out of your arses.

Why are you ashamed?

What have you done?

And L'Oreal are perfectly entitled to decide they don't want to work with MB because they don't want to antagonise their customer base.

Yes they are. What they are not entitled to do is effectively repeat what MB said a couple of years further down the line when suddenly its 'fashionable' and will get them some virtue points for the brand.

It's disgusting actually.

MB tells white people that they cannot possibly understand what life is like as a black person, and they are right. And yet that is exactly what Munroe has done to women. And not only has Munroe done it to women, Munroe has then preached to women that they are the ones doing womaning and feminism wrong. Can you imagine a white person painting their face black and then acting in all manner of stereotypical ways, and then telling Munroe that they are just as a legitimate voice for black people as Munroe is? It would be fucking outrageous! I am just totally astonished that no one see the hypocrisy

This is the best post.

I’m ashamed that this thread was even started. Some of you need to pull your heads out of your arses.

I don't have a lot of time for corporate jumping on to causes in general, but isn't that part of the problem? Companies are almost expected to do so, but it creates all of these hypocrisies.

But whether you are a company or an individual, there has to be a gulf between supporting a group like BLM or having serious concerns about police brutality, and being ok with your representative saying that all white people (including your customers) inherit racism in their DNA and are the cause of all oppression through history.

There s not some kind of contradiction between supporting one and not the other.

MB tells white people that they cannot possibly understand what life is like as a black person, and they are right. And yet that is exactly what Munroe has done to women. And not only has Munroe done it to women, Munroe has then preached to women that they are the ones doing womaning and feminism wrong

Indeed.

Perfectly entitled to speak out. And L'Oreal are perfectly entitled to decide they don't want to work with MB because they don't want to antagonise their customer base.

And perfectly entitled to adopt those antagonistic views when it suddenly works for the business, too. I'll reserve the right to agree with MB that it's total self serving hypocrisy, though.

I think MB has a point here too and as a person of colour has every right to make it.

and yes @JoeExoticsEyebrowRing exactly that too!

But MB is a person of colour, and therefore completely entitled to speak about racism and the systemic privilege of white people.

Perfectly entitled to speak out. And L'Oreal are perfectly entitled to decide they don't want to work with MB because they don't want to antagonise their customer base.

I honestly don't think, as a person whiter than chalk, I feel even slightly comfortable telling a black person they are being too goady in their criticism of systemic racism.

I agree that activism and corporate advertising are going to be oil and water when it comes down to the wire, but I think I would always respect the person who came down on the side of activism over toeing the corporate line.

And anyway, MBs point in the most recent tweet is that L'oreal are suddenly parroting the speaking about privilege spiel because it's fashionable, having jettisoned MB for inelegantly talking about it when it was less likely to add coin to the L'oreal coffers. That's the issue - that the big corporation are now claiming their virtue points to profit, but the actual black person who said the same thing some years ago who they sacked, was too rude about it.

Nope, fuck that. I won't tell an angry woman to be nice about her experience of oppression while a big corporation makes some dollar over branding things with IWD logos, so I won't say that to a black person.

You can dismiss it as 'identity politics', but the excesses of IdPol do not mean that those who have experienced the shitty end of the stick should have to shut up about it.

I agree with floralbunting that Munroe is completely entitled to speak about racism and the systemic privilege of white people. You might not find it a comfortable topic, but complaining about how well made the argument is, or how MB shouldn't be angry or some shit, is exactly what men do when they tell women to shut up too

Have really warmed to her on Instagram recently too, not sure what the OP is on about?

So, mark the moment, cos it won't happen again unless MB drops the misogyny, but I completely agree with MB's anger and points on this topic.

Yeah same here

I can't stand MB but Munroe does have a point here and I am happy for them to speak out about it tbh.

What does make me laugh is that MB tells white people that they cannot possibly understand what life is like as a black person, and they are right. And yet that is exactly what Munroe has done to women. And not only has Munroe done it to women, Munroe has then preached to women that they are the ones doing womaning and feminism wrong. Can you imagine a white person painting their face black and then acting in all manner of stereotypical ways, and then telling Munroe that they are just as a legitimate voice for black people as Munroe is? It would be fucking outrageous! I am just totally astonished that no one see the hypocrisy, but that is a different issue I guess.

I have allowed for the fact that it isn’t for me to police how black people speak about racism and they don’t have to be nice in doing so... but I really think those comments were a very bad wording of a very good point.

It's an asshole comment, IMO.

The original comment was stupid, historically idiotic, and racist, so I'm not surprised by the response or L'Oreal at the time. It really doesn't matter to me if lots of people are saying it now, it's pure idpolitics and it is a way of thinking that is contributing substantially to the direction of racism in the 21st century.

It was also not the kind of activism that is normally going to be compatible with being the face of a cosmetic company. That's not saying models can't support causes, but radical activism and that kind of work aren't necessarily ever going to be easy bedfellows. That's any kind of radical activism and I think most adults understand that.

AS I understand it, the criticism of this current comment is that after this death that was quite horrible on the face of it, and which had brought the focus on police violence and race as a whole, MB is somehow equating the topic with being dropped from a (very well paid) job that required a good public profile for acting like an asshat. Anyone who is an actual victim of inappropriate police violence might look askance at that.

Come see me when you realise that racism isn't learned, it's inherited and consciously or unconsciously passed down through privilege.

I'm surprised they have been cancelled. I thought the concept of all 'white' people being inherently racist and 'white privilege' being the original sin that stains the soul and therefore makes anyone with a light skin colour irredeemable was a very popular one these days.

If racism is inherent to white people, why should they bother changing their ways? How does one change something they are naturally predisposed to?
If white people are racially predisposed to certain things, does that mean other 'races' are also predisposed to certain things and behaviours? What might those things and behaviours be?
And what about when 'non-white' races oppress and exploit other 'non-white' races?

Fair enough Bergdorf's qualified to talk about racism.

This, though:

From micro-aggressions to terrorism, you guys built the blueprint for this shit.

History goes further back than the founding of America. White people didn't invent this shit all by ourselves. We inherited this shit from our predecessors, who in the not-too-distant past weren't white.

We get this shit from the patriarchal monotheistic religions of the middle east; and I disagree with the implication that white people sprang out of nowhere with evil pre-programmed in.