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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bringing up boys

58 replies

Mumoblue · 30/05/2020 08:56

NC for this because I'm not sure how it will be received, maybe I'm just overthinking. I tend to do that.

I have a young baby son, and I'm thinking a lot about how to bring him up, obviously. It hit me early on how gendered the world is over silly things. For example he was born with a lot of hair and many people are already telling me he needs a haircut 'soon' - he's not even 6 months yet!
And I saw a few threads on here about dads being uncomfortable with their boys having certain toys, which winds me up no end.

I want to raise my son to treat people fairly but I know that he's going to get certain messages from society that it's okay for him to act in some ways and not in other ways just because he is a boy. I think it's all bullshit.

So I thought I'd ask if there were other mums of sons here who have some thoughts about raising sons with a feminist perspective.

Maybe I'm way overthinking, but I would hate for my son to grow up feeling either restrained by what society expects of him or feeling like he can do bad things because men get away with those things.

I'm not overly stressed about this, as I think I will raise him to be a good person as I would if he were a girl, but it's been on my mind a bit.

OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 30/05/2020 11:48

TBH OP I think you'll be fine, you and your boy will be fine.

I think the early years are tough, especially with division of labour and we also experience a difference in standards. I'm more clean, DH is more about tidiness. We struggle at times but find a way to readdress the balance when it tips.

Your awareness means you're already thinking of how to counter-balance it and I found most of it was led by my boy. He has toy cooking and shopping things but generally plays trains. He now designs and builds them himself and it's a problem solving/engineering thing he enjoys, it's not been something he does because he's a boy. I tried the doll thing but it never stuck, it just wasn't what he wanted to play with but had it been it would have been something we would have encouraged him to develop. He's very loving with his teddies.

I think if kids have freedom they will show and guides adults. I also think most childcare settings are on this page now and it's far less rigid than it used to be, but equally in my time I was all about cars and trains but very into dresses and dolls too.

I think you sound relaxed and open minded about it all. All parents have a responsibility to our kids of course but I hope to raise a sensitive, well-rounded, open-minded critical thinker who will be kind but know his boundaries and build his opinions on knowledge. Fingers crossed!

Gncq · 30/05/2020 11:09

Let Toys be Toys seems relevant to my post

lettoysbetoys.org.uk/

Gncq · 30/05/2020 11:08

It's good to set an example in your own home, eg let him play with typically "girly" things if he actually wants, to balance out the messages he'll get outside.

When my son was about 2-3 he became extremely fascinated by my makeup bag. The powder brush was something heavenly to him! I basically used to let him pretend to put makeup on, even beeswax lip balm and everything, for the sensory-play of it. I know some people would have a strong reaction to that! (Luckily my makeup bag is safe again now he's 5).

I also let him pretend to wear glittery earrings (you know, hanging decorations round his ears type thing) because he finds it so entertaining.

Idk, trying to think of more examples of things boys may be often told they shouldn't do because "it's for girls".
Wear a necklace etc. I just let him do all of them if he really wants to without making a thing of it.

There are so many limits to children when they're expected to fit into such a strict set of behaviours through gender.

He sometimes says things like "girls can't be engineers can they mummy" so I just correct him and try finding examples.

Lately he's been saying "girls don't like cheese do they" which I think comes from his class at school (it's a v small reception class) where for some reason the girls all don't like cheese! Once an idea is there it seems quite fixed.

Children get ideas in their head from everything, friends, telly, other adults, so the most you can do really is just do things at home to balance it out.

Young children should be free to play without being told whatever is not for them because girls/boys.

Wearywithteens · 30/05/2020 11:07

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Mumoblue · 30/05/2020 10:51

I really am enjoying the replies, I think it's an important thing to think and talk about.

Our division of labour in the house is somewhat skewed at the moment as my DP has recently lost his job. He always worked more and did all the cooking whereas I worked less and did most of the cleaning. He has picked up his housework but we have different standards. I know lots of couples say that but I was bought up essentially in a tip and mess causes me physical anxiety so I can get a bit carried away. I dream of living in an IKEA catalogue.
I wonder if it's possible to live like this while letting him know that mummy doesn't tidy so much because she's the mummy, she does it because mess makes her feel sad.

As for toys, I was a huge tomboy so I was looking forward to getting an army of plastic dinosaurs just like I had for my kid before I even knew what he was- I'm also wary of sending the message "feminine things bad". I already plan to get him a toy kitchen and a baby doll when he's older. Not to prove anything about gender roles specifically but mostly to give him the option of all kinds of play.

The one thing I think I will struggle with is how other people react. I used to work with kids and a little boy I worked with came to world book day as his favourite disney princess. He was teased by another boy I was looking after, which I swiftly put a stop to. I asked him WHY it's funny to wear a dress, and the boy couldn't answer- and then it stopped being an issue. But still my heart hurts when I think about kids who want to express themselves being teased because they dont fit the box they were put into.

Obviously my boy is tiny and doesn't think about any of this stuff yet 😂 but I think it's good to be considering it from the start.

OP posts:
FurryGiraffe · 30/05/2020 10:30

I think what Emma says is absolutely right. I have 2 boys- 7 and 4 and a similar household set up to PPs.

The biggest issue is other people I think! There have been challenges in terms of school and nursery, where they pick things up from other kids. DS1 loved pink from a young age, went to school and was then surrounded by a chorus of boys who told him pink was for girls. We did a lot of reinforcing that anyone can like any colour, but it definitely put him off. Though interestingly DS2 has recently started coming out with a lot of gender stereotyped stuff about pink (and unicorns!) being for girls and DS1 challenges him on it so he was clearly listening.

The thing I worry most about is how to tackle relationships/sex/consent/porn as they get older: I feel a huge weight of responsibility to bring up respectful, considerate young men. But we have made a start by modelling an equal, respectful relationship and we talk openly about things so hopefully we'll navigate those waters Ok when the time comes.

OhHolyJesus · 30/05/2020 09:26

My son is 4 and I echo everything Emma said. We have a very similar family situation with division of child care and house work.

I cut his hair when he was 18 months and only because it was hot. (He had such beautiful hair. People did think he was a girl but it really didn't matter.) We play a mix of games and toys but he is genuinely interested in trains but then I had trains when I was little too. I was obsessed with cranes!

We read Enid Blyton and talk about the characters and their emotions. I always say George wants to be a boy and do things with the boys because she doesn't want to be like Anne and do all the cleaning and cooking and the boys do all the fun stuff!

There are books on the subject and I've read a bit about toxic masculinity so I encourage him to cry if he feels sad, but not just to get his own way. I want him to manage his emotions but not suppress them.

You might find, as I did anyway, that it's the everyday sexism that you find difficult to challenge. The kind comments from old ladies that actually reaffirm stereotypes or the suggestions that he would wants 'boy toys' for Christmas. You will have to find your own way there, I tend to be quite firm!

My son potty trained early, talked early and walked around 13 months. The expectations was that he would be slow or lazy, would be one of the last (as if it's a competition) and it was the opposite for me. The times that came up I was very clear that this is not necessarily true and wasn't true for my boy. I hated that the expectations for him were lower just because he is a boy.

AnotherEmma · 30/05/2020 09:09

There are some good books and blogs about feminist parenting and raising boys.

My son is 3 so it's early days for us yet but so far I think the key things are:

  • choice of partner as his attitude is important, you say "dads being uncomfortable with certain toys", what matters is whether your partner is and hopefully you haven't chosen someone who would be
  • division of labour in terms of childcare and housework, it's really important for us to show our children an egalitarian relationship, and for both parents to pull their weight and show each other respect for their contribution. In our case we both work part time (DH does 4 days and I do 3) and take turns with mornings and bedtimes. We share household chores and DH probably does a bit more than me Blush some families will have a SAHP and I don't think that's "unfeminist" provided the working parent still takes an active role in parenting and housework when they are home.
  • talking about emotions, I am really committed to this as I think it's so important for all children and especially boys, we talk about feeling sad, cross, frustrated etc, and try and encourage him to express his emotions appropriately (obviously this is age dependent and a learning process)
  • careful choice of clothes, the older they get the harder it seems to avoid gendered clothes, but I am conscious of the slogans and wouldn't touch any stereotype ones with a bargepole
  • obviously letting them play with whatever toys they want, and making it clear all toys are for everyone. My DS has a doll and pushchair and a play kitchen for example.
  • Reading books with a good mix of characters, I find so many books have a male protagonist and lots of male characters, so sometimes I'll change it to "she" (if I think of it) and I actively seek out books with strong and interesting female characters.

In later years I am planning to think carefully about how we discuss relationships and sex including consent, porn etc, as I think we have a huge responsibility to teach and guide our sons about this, and to try and counter the negative influences Sad