Bringing up boys

Wearywithteens

Sounds like your son is a lovely young man.

Have to say I've been noting a lot of antipathy to sport - in these Covid times - as if sport is just an irrelevance; something for boys, men and 'chavs' - and therefore unworthy.I like football ( brought up in Liverpool - actually very close to the training ground) and was always sporty at school, & still am by inclination.

I have 2 boys but I can't say I thought about this just concentrated on them being happy and healthy .
One has a toy buggy the other a Hoover , one hated anything pink when little the other didn't mind and now older will often wear a pink shirt where as my other son wouldn't .
They both play sport but because they enjoy and it's what they wanted to do , we have let them guide us really and just followed there interests

Tbh I was and am less worried about pink/blue boy/girl stereotypes - as long as your kid knows these are stereotypes it’s ok for them to do their thing without judgment.

I really think 99% of kids grow out of this thinking anyway (or at least until recently.) By the time they are hitting puberty children understand that colours and styles etc are associated with sex by custom, and that sometimes people flout the customs. They may or may not want to flout the custom themselves, they might like adhering to it, but they realise it is fully possible not to and that these customs are not the same everywhere.

Talking about physical strength is an interesting thing. I've talked to my son about this as something to be aware of as I want him to be conscious of it, he's a strong kid and athlete but with several older sisters it's maybe not obvious to him that he will have an advantage. Interestingly I've found that many people are not comfortable with relative strength being mentioned to kids.

My DS is 15 and one of the things I have emphasised in his upbringing is thinking about emotions and expressing feelings. To learn how to verbally express all feelings - rather than physically. To ensure he knows it’s ok for boys and men to feel all types of feelings not just anger.
Also I have encouraged him to think of other people’s points of view. Now he’s older I enjoy pointing out different societal expectations of the sexes because awareness of the imbalance is half the battle. He is very aware of my feminist views because we have family discussions on these topics.
Now he is man-sized I am so glad I talked to him about using his physical strength in a positive way from an early age - and taught him that to use it to be kind and gentle is the most manly thing you can do.
Tbh I was and am less worried about pink/blue boy/girl stereotypes - as long as your kid knows these are stereotypes it’s ok for them to do their thing without judgment.

I have two boys, nine and six.
The only time I have said "You can't do that you're a boy" was when ds1 tried to walk into the wrong toilets.
I have to admit I'm glad ds1 is a bit geeky like me. We both love Star Wars and computer games. However I've generally tried to take a step back when it comes to toy choices.
I haven't really got anything to add on top of things other posters have said. So I'll just give you this anecdote -
Ds1 was starting swimming lessons at school. I told him to go to the airing cupboard and get out whichever beach towel he wanted to use. He came down with a bright pink one.
I asked him if he was sure he wanted that particular one. He replied "Mum, are you worried I'll get teased because that won't happen."
That was me told! He's always liked pink. He wasn't teased.

I’ve been on the verge of starting an almost identical thread, but for advice on raising a daughter. (I did initially think it would be ‘easier’ than raising a son, or that there would be less conflict, but now that my toddler is all about cuddling and feeding her stuffed animal ‘babies’ I’ve been panicking slightly that we are accidentally pushing these behaviours on to her). But lots of great advice on here for parents of daughters, too.

This is something that you really just should not worry about, or second guess. Would you worry if a little boy was feeding his stuffed animals and taking care of them? What's wrong with taking care of babies anyway?

This is where I see young parents getting themselves into trouble. They want to avoid gendered stereotypes, but end up objecting to their boys doing "boyish" things and seem thrilled when they want dolls and sparkles, and refuse to buy pink stuff for their girls or worry that they want fancy dresses.

This sends a message just as much as pushing kids toward gender norms does

Feel free to apologise for insulting my "style"

My comment was addressed to Ursula (whose posts have now been deleted, so you might not have seen them) and not to you

O.K! Thanks! No, did not see the comments.

@Justhadathought
My comment was addressed to Ursula (whose posts have now been deleted, so you might not have seen them) and not to you.

I might also add the older son had beautiful, long blond hair as a teenager, and everyone loved him. Especially girls.

Of course tv programmes will present extremes for the "entertainment" of viewers ie so they can judge and bitch about people as you have just done

Being " bitchy" is not really my style..so I'm not sure why you felt the need to make this comment? Says more about your style, maybe?

Did you watch the programme I referenced? I was using it as an exemplar of imposing an ideology to the point it squashes the child's actual preferences or discovery of their own nature. the boy in question was frightened of making his own choices; indeed he seemed not to know what they might be, when confronted with situations out of his mother's control and definition.

Not everything, in my view is about 'patriarchy'. My two boys were lovely, nice natured and not at all 'difficult' as young children. Their father is a gentle man, and a life long vegetarian...and certainly not an archetypal macho man in any way. We didn't purchase computer games which featured fighting or warfare or anything like that......and I ,initially, held to the principle of not buying toy guns or action men etc

Yet still, when out walking in the woods, both the boys would pick up sticks and imitate guns or swords...and play 'stalking', army-type games etc. And when they were in their teens, one of them became very interested in the military ( & used to draw the most finely detailed images of army scenes); the other went on to join his schools army cadet force, and loved it ( mixed school...and there were girls in it too).

Neither son has grown up to be misogynistic or violent...(one is now a DJ and music producer; the other did an MA in International Relations, and is looking for work in international aid agencies or charities)..There were simply expressing themselves in ways which came naturally to them.

Can I add, my daughter, who was the eldest, did not engage in war play of a similar kind, even though she had the most wilful, powerful nature. Boys do, in general, seem more object/outward focused..girls more relational.

To rule out biology and the influence of sex hormones on behaviour, aptitude or attitude is naive, in my view. They are real and powerful, and can be seen in action throughout the natural world. And not all 'boy' qualities are negative and destructive......they just are; and they have a certain natural 'purpose'. that's not to say that as civilised human beings living in a liberal democracy we cannot choose to channel or sublimate our urges and instincts in different ways.

I have 2 sons, as different to each other as night and day in every way.

I think that outside of not ever telling them that 'this is for boys/this is for girls' (outside of actual biological stuff) the best thing you can do is treat them as individuals.

DS1 loved cars - mainly to run down ramps and perhaps crash. DS2 couldn't care less about cars but loves stuffed animals. DS1 is a softy who couldn't even watch Tree Fu Tom without hiding behind the settee - DS2 sternly told his father that he didn't think The Dark Crystal was appropriate because Aughra popped her eyeball out - but was otherwise unphased by it all. DS1 wears what's issued, DS2 wants to pick his outfit, and loves a bit of sparkle. Completely their own people, just like everyone else.

I agree, a lot of it applies to both.
Check out the website and Facebook page "A Mighty Girl", too - it's American but they have lots of great resources.

I’ve been on the verge of starting an almost identical thread, but for advice on raising a daughter. (I did initially think it would be ‘easier’ than raising a son, or that there would be less conflict, but now that my toddler is all about cuddling and feeding her stuffed animal ‘babies’ I’ve been panicking slightly that we are accidentally pushing these behaviours on to her). But lots of great advice on here for parents of daughters, too.

interesting point about being bullied. DS1 was bullied although he fitted right in on every level but was more sensitive to his peers approval.

DS2 is arguably far more quirky, but his personality means he doesn't give a shit and so is far more difficult to bully.

Support your child, but most importantly let them be who they are.

I have 2 boys aged 10 and 14. You just treat them as individuals and respect their choices.

DS1 had very few female friends, DS2 has mostly female friends. DS1 has never been bothered about his appearance, DS2 is very keen to look a certain way and has just bought some makeup and loves dressing up.

Don't make a deal out of any of it, just allow them to be interested in what ever they are interested in. Then you will have well rounded children.

That's sad. I do think children are actually much more open minded than adults. But they also learn quickly what adults expect of them

Spot on, AnotherEmma.

When my son decided to grow his hair long (aged about 6, 7-ish) he got a lot of teasing about it initially. So we talked very openly about what his options were - cut it, or try to find strategies for dealing with the teasing. We googled footballers with long hair so he knew he wasn't alone. We talked to his teacher. His friends backed him up.

In the end the thing that made him decide to cut it was he just got fed up with adults commenting on it, not other children.

There is a difference between allowing your children freedom to be themselves without being restricted by gender norms

Yes

Blackdog and Yorkshire
It was lovely to read your posts about your teenage sons, your love and pride in them really shone through

Charming

There is a difference between allowing your children freedom to be themselves without being restricted by gender norms and actively encouraging your boy to be "girly" (or your daughter to be "boyish"). I think it's pretty clear that everyone on this thread has been advocating the former and not the latter. Of course tv programmes will present extremes for the "entertainment" of viewers ie so they can judge and bitch about people as you have just done.

"I do think, though, that there are some subtle differences between girls and boys...which to my mind is inevitable."

Well, yes, there are often differences, and they are very difficult to avoid, because we live in a patriarchy, and we are not the only influences on our children - they're influenced by other people in their lives and by the media.