Any Transcribers Here? Polly Carmichael re puberty blockers

I don’t believe it is Scrimp ...apart from the stunning & brave factor.

The more I read and hear from this woman, the more firm my conclusion that she is a dangerous quack.
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I would love someone to explain that point, Datun. It surely is fairly straightforward? If people are accessing NHS support for dysphoria, I presume it has to be some kind of condition?

'Gender dysphoria is a term that describes a sense of unease that a person may have'

A sense of unease. Seems somewhat vague to me.

'Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness'

It's a 'sense of unease'.

This next bit is from the GIC (Tavistock)

'Gender dysphoria describes the distress experienced by those whose gender identity feels at odds with aspects of their body and/or the social gender role assigned to them at birth. This can be experienced as physical discomfort, and psychological and emotional distress. Social factors are often key in the experience of gender dysphoria.'

So, it's distress. But it's not mental illness.

In what other cases does 'distress' trigger interventions?

Lots of people are 'distressed' for lots of reasons, generally speaking the NHS doesn't intervene to address those reasons.

I don't know much about this area, but I find it really very odd that this one particular instance of 'distress' is not a mental illness, nor a physical one, yet can be treated by the NHS. Especially given the parlous, farcical state of mental health services at the moment - I hear people are getting no treatment whatsoever, even when they're begging for help.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

The closest thing I can think of is something like anorexia, which the NHS describes as: 'Anorexia is an eating disorder and serious mental health condition.'

How is gender dysphoria different?

Gosh, that was difficult to read. It sounds as though she's suddenly baulking at the implications which are being publicly challenged. And at the same time is frightened to go against powerful trans lobby groups like mermaids.

It's all so, 'but on the other hand'.

And yes, as a PP has said, if gender dysphoria is not a mental health condition, and what the hell is it? Is she suggesting it's a rational response to restrictive stereotypes? Because if it's not that, and it's not a mental health condition, and it's not a physical illness, then yes what the fuck is it??

Pope, quite possible I've made some errors, the sound quality was often tricky. I meant to go back and correct a couple of words I'd misheard but haven't had a minute! Not sure if there was a definitive consensus on reparative/conservative, either?

The more I read and hear from this woman, the more firm my conclusion that she is a dangerous quack.

Thanks, will read.
I've not been able to listen to the recording, but is it likely that this should be "prospective data" rather than "perspective"? It's a type of research that tracks people over time.

"But the truth is we have very little published long term outcome data, and the Dutch really are the only group who have published perspective data looking at the impact of physical treatments, and their data is a heterogeneous group including people of different ages, so those from 12 up until early adulthood."

If you each let me know your pet charity, I’ll make donations.

Please don't worry about me, I hardly did anything (it was a pre existing processing chain I use for online lectures).

So it is technically correct to say that, as far as we know, the puberty blocking effects are reversible

We know if you stop precocious puberty for a couple of years that puberty then restarts. But do we know if you take them from age 11 until 16 or 17 or 18 that puberty restarts? What about if you got to 16 then started taking cross sex hormones for a year? Or even if you stopped taking them at 14 would you have a normal puberty?

I feel very strongly that gender dysphoria is not a mental health condition

I guess we're talking about different conditions - one perhaps social where your personality doesn't fit with what's expected of your gender - lots of us here have experienced that; another psychological, e.g. where you've experienced trauma and you're trying to get away from your sexed body; (there's maybe a third in-between these which isn't about individual trauma or psychology but about the problems of coping with puberty in general and feeling uncomfortable with the way society is treating you - particularly for girls); and finally an issue of neurological mis-wiring for genuine body dysmorphia happening in a different part of your brain from the rational thought bit.

These aren't necessarily mental health issues, they're social and physiological.

I still don't think transition is the answer though!

That rings true Fallin as Blanchard said the thickening of vocal chords on girls/women is permanent as if surgery has taken place, this is omitted in media or speeches by Polly.

I'm Stella O's/Ollie Lambert's documentary there was a young woman who has been on testosterone but went for a scan and had what appeared to be functioning ovaries but I can't remember how long she had been on the hormone.

If Polly here says they need more research in when to prescribe the hormones/blockers it doesn't sound like there is a considered decision about not doing it at all, just when is the right time.

It may have been this one:

In one of the documentaries from the last couple of years into trans children, I think either Stella O’Malley’s “Trans Children, it’s time to talk, or a bbc newsnight documentary, Carmichael was very carefully choosing her language.

She was asked whether blockers are reversible, and said that puberty would resume if the child stopped the drug. This section came immediately after a discussion of effects of blockers on the brain, i.e. effects other than those directly related to puberty.

So it is technically correct to say that, as far as we know, the puberty blocking effects are reversible, but it is also a lie by omission, when they don’t mention that blockers have other effects, that may be irreversible.

Last October GIDS were reprimanded for describing blockers as a pause button,when they are actually used as a first step on the path to cross sex hormones:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3721138-HRA-GIDS-admit-purpose-of-blockers-is-to-progress-to-cross-sex-hormones

Sorry about the text mess - phone playing up, but you get the drift

She seems to have a sensible position at some points and then acts in the opposite way, it doesn't make any sense

Also agree that she seems to be utterly in thrall to the trans lobby and terrified of saying anything they might not approve of.

She tries to sneak in slightly more considered views under cover, with the end result that none of it makes sense.

Hasn't she now left the She seems to have a sensible position at some points and then acts in the opposite w

Also agree that she seems to be utterly in thrall to the trans lobby and terrified of saying anything they might not approve of.

She tries to sneak in slightly more considered views under cover, with the end result that none of it makes sense.

Hasn't she now left the Tavistock?

Hypothalamus regulates production of hormones involved in reproductive system.

Yes agree it would be "hypothalamic blocker"

She seems to have a sensible position at some points and then acts in the opposite way, it doesn't make any sense

It sounds to me as though she wants to appease the trans lobby and assure them that she is doing their bidding. Occasionally she reverts to being a rational medical professional who wants to do the best for her patients, but she keeps being floored by the cognitive dissonance.

The real question is, why is she so in thrall to the trans lobby when she knows their position goes against the best interests of the children she is treating?

"hypothalamic blocker" is GnRHa (Gonadotrophin-Releasing Hormone agonists/analogues), aka "puberty blockers"

She found herself getting anxious that they might want priorities preserving fertility.…

I heard it as she was anxious the child would start experiencing puberty which they had said they would find disturbing...and yet then they don't care...so which is it then? Fickle teens changing their minds perhaps Polly?

TBF I'd be anxious too if I had taken a child to a point in their social and medical transition and then that child started to indicate a different position, I'd be worried there might be legal repercussions...and yet she says "we must do no harm".

She seems to have a sensible position at some points and then acts in the opposite way, it doesn't make any sense...unless she is saying one thing and doing another, like a politician.

who have decided to um delay starting the blocker, although they’re certain about the pathway they want to take, in order to preserve fertility and I found myself getting anxious, and saying but you do know, you do know your voice might break, you do know you know, and this young person was like “ I don’t care”

She found herself getting anxious that they might want priorities preserving fertility....

She reiterated that point several times, and said "I feel very strongly" it's not a mental health condition and yet she says the body and mind are complex and connected and she says we can think "a bit binary". DFOD.

What this woman a Dr of? She says she is a health professional so what is her training, background and qualification?

She says she wants kids to feel comfortable with their bodies and society should be more accepting. Yes Polly, that's what women have been fighting for, why do children need synthetic hormones in order to do this?

She's full of shit basically, totally contradicts herself and fails to make a clear point in what they do, how they do it, why they do it and asking people for ideas on roles and relationships and visions, seriously you're the Director, I'm all for feedback but if you don't know how this stuff works you need to reassess your career 'pathway'.

This is a woman who people are entrusting with their children's wellbeing?

I think we are all aware it’s not a mental health condition errm and errm I think there is great controversy about that and just saying that, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water, I think you know umm of course it’s not a mental health condition but we are all complex beings with a mind and body

Bloody hell.

Well done, OhHoly, glad it wasn't just me that struggled to make sense of what I was hearing!

I feel very strongly that gender dysphoria is not a mental health condition

Then what. The Fuck. Is it?

If it's not a mental health issue, then there must be another description and clear pathology for it, no? Is there one?