Express and Star article - head of British Toilet Association pushing for mixed loos

As ok as it is for you to make my DS feel shit and be physically ill?

Really the argument gets no where. Some people want single sex. Some unisex.

How long can that be your solution though - I assume he is a child now but at what age will he/you be comfortable for him to go alone?

Object away. You won't change anything. You'll just make a SN boy feeling shitter about something he already feels shit about.

But it’s ok to make my disabled daughter feel shit?

Yes many women do object. I’m sorry but your child’s needs do not override my daughter’s needs for a space free from men.

Don't worry my son won't ever be in the same cubicle.

Object away. You won't change anything. You'll just make a SN boy feeling shitter about something he already feels shit about.

Thankfully most people in real are actually very understanding.

If you go to France the disabled loo is rarely seperated anyway.

We’re not in France, so that argument is pointless. And if you go to some other countries, people have no toilets so shite in the bushes. Charities are working in developing countries to provide single sex toilets to protect girls. Why do you think they’re doing that?

If the disabled is full and its a choice of soiling himself or the ladies,

And if there’s a male in the female toilets, my daughter will refuse to go and soil herself, as she was abused and is distrustful of men. The only way to solve this issue is to have three toilet areas, make, female and unisex. It’s not right to force either sex to share, because of a minority of people who need or desire mixed toilets,

That’s what the disabled toilets are for. I have a special needs daughter and I don’t want her sharing with males.

If the disabled is full and its a choice of soiling himself or the ladies, were in the ladies generally anyway. If you go to France the disabled loo is rarely seperated anyway.

I know many women object.

Yes many women do object. I’m sorry but your child’s needs do not override my daughter’s needs for a space free from men. A woman or girl should always have the right to privacy and dignity when needing to do something as intimate as urinating, changing her sanitary wear, etc.

Unisex bu design is one thing, mixed sex by default is quite another.

Yes and sometimes thats very neccessary. But thats only one. If you both need the loo I have to take him in then queue seperately for me. If there's only one you have to wait even actually if DS is some physical distress doing so. Only i can take him in. Unisex means a BF or other family member can take him in knowing they can nab me if actually DS needs more assistance than anticipated. When DS is really desperate and dives in the men's cos we cant find the disabled or its occupied (with a dad taking 3 mixed sexed toddlers in which wouldnt be necessary with unisex loos) i can dive in after him and make sure hes ok without embarrassing every one present.

I know many women object. But certainly not every

The last time I was in a mixed sexual loo (I was bursting) was in Libertys. Off a dark back staircase - all women - men would come in, stop, look at the women then apologise and back out (checking the door sign). Only one man decided to march past the queue of women and stomp into the one disabled cubicle and slam the door.

Kind of besides the point since most people want single sex toilets anyway so that's what we should have, but on the length of lines thing, don't a lot of men take forever to take a shit? I realize for some that's because they read in there or whatever, but there also seems to be something physiological where older men in particular just take a really long time to clear their bowels, and I personally like not having to wait on them doing so when I'm trying to catch a train or something.

I'm female. I benefit from mixed toilets. I have a SN tween boy.

That’s what the disabled toilets are for. I have a special needs daughter and I don’t want her sharing with males.

You could use the disabled toilets surely? Larger and easier to access.

I'm female. I benefit from mixed toilets
. I have a SN tween boy.

He's right. And yes that is a need that many women and girls have. Fix makeup, adjust clothing. We don't use toilets in the same way as men.

I really can't see men wanting to stand in a massive queue like women always do.

Whenever I have been somewhere where that happens, like festivals, you get loads of men pissing in the hedges instead.

The idea may fail on that alone.

So women should have to share with men because some men have a shy bladder - again that makes 0 sense. Just give them cubicals or screens.

I asked dh how he would feel about sharing. He wasn't that keen when I pointed out the blood often left in the ladies, but said he wouldn't really care. When I asked how he would feel about doing a poo if two young girls were by the mirror doing make up - he said, "they're not going be in there doing make up if men are shitting in there". Bit crass but true. It's us that will be driven out not the men.

PS Men's toilets' have some cubicles in them. So that's the shy bladder men sorted already.

Exactly. But if men don't want urinals because the majority are uncomfortable with them, I fully support their campaign to get rid of them. But it's no reason to push mixed sex toilets on women, and we can see through this transparent attempt to do so.

I have a bit of a shy bladder too. As in, I don't feel safe using public toilets if men are in there. My argument is that single sex facilities better meet the needs of a significant section of the population - the female 50%.

PS Men's toilets' have some cubicles in them. So that's the shy bladder men sorted already.

His argument was more that fully enclosed, unisex facilities better meet the needs of significant sections of the population. Which I agree with tbh.

I'm interested in how. If men don't want urinals, that's fine. As a woman, what toilet facilities men prefer is up to them (although I think you'll find many men do like them) But most people want single sex toilets, and a lot more women would have a "shy" bladder/bowels if they had to have men in their loos.

There are good arguments why enclosed unisex toilets don't work for many women. I don't think he's bothering to think about those, but am open to changing my mind.

Weirdly enough I heard this guy interviewed on the radio the other day, here in Canada. That interview was more about the general difficulties of even finding a public toilet to use at the moment, when so many are shut down.

He had some interesting things to say about urinals, which I agreed with. For one they're a nightmare for anyone who suffers from shy bladder. I know DH really struggles to use them sometimes, and I am trying to imagine sitting on a toilet and doing a wee in an open space with strangers... It's kind of a weird concept tbh.

They did briefly discuss reconfiguring facilities to be unisex but the trans argument was barely touched on. His argument was more that fully enclosed, unisex facilities better meet the needs of significant sections of the population. Which I agree with tbh.

Urinals are surely more hygienic for men.

Yes, intuitively, that feels correct. The coronavirus can be shed in faeces. Men would have to lift the seat, touching where faecal aerosol had landed when the loo was flushed. They'd then leave the seat up so women would have to lower the seat, touching faecal aerosol. This means more contact with coronavirus, not less.

This isn't about coronavirus at all, its about pandering to gender essentialism, and, disgustingly, they are willing to endanger lives by making toilets less safe for everyone from a CV perspective as well as less safe for women and girls.

Perhaps they are hoping to reduce infection rates by making half the population feel so unsafe that they will no longer use a public toilet.

It makes me so angry. You know what I would like if I were an opportunistic attacker? A nice dead end space I can trap someone in. Quiet, tucked away, secluded. Perfect. Cubicles ideal for hiding in or dragging someone into. And the perfect right to be in there.

It's underpants gnomes logic again. There's a missing step in which he explains exactly how mixed sex toilets prevent a virus from spreading.