Express and Star article - head of British Toilet Association pushing for mixed loos

Agree. If you want to live in a country where public toilets are run in a way that satisfies the requirements of your (fictional) religion, this isn’t it.

Is that a subtle way of saying “go back where you came from”?

I dont view religion, which historically has been one of the biggest surpresssers of women as a good argument. Not in a predominantly atheist country.

Agree. If you want to live in a country where public toilets are run in a way that satisfies the requirements of your (fictional) religion, this isn’t it.

I can't walk through the men's and respect their privacy without not being able to see what im doing. Which is not so good if you have a child prone to falling and tripping

Unisex removes the dilemma

Aside from the many many complaints about men peeing in the stalls and leaving the door open, if it comes about that we have unisex loos, nothing will actually change. What was mens will still have urinals, so you will still see men. What was womens will over time also get urinals and as a consequence fewer stalls and you will still see men.

And for a very very long time until it becomes standard if ever, most people will use the originally sexed toilet for their sex. Apart from the ones that women want to keep out by staying single sex.

If you think urinals will never happen, think again, men will not stand for joining a queue.

All male, men and one transwoman

But try telling that to the families of little girls in developing countries who have been kidnapped and raped/murdered when they have to go a relieve themselves outside because they have no toilets. They won’t fight for these loos - just ‘gender neutral’ ones here (as if that’s a matter of life and death).

I've been reading some of the work done by Wateraid round women's toilets

washmatters.wateraid.org/publications/female-friendly-public-and-community-toilets-a-guide-for-planners-and-decision-makers.

There's a rather good YouTube video halfway down explaining, it's amazing that it has be, why safe and accessible toilets are important for women.

Funny really, separate facilities for women are considered important and liberating in the so-called developed world, in the West they are called bigoted, transphobic and irrelevant

Whilst I think unisex can just about work in certain situations (eg at work where there are 4 or 5 loos, each one is entirely separate, it’s a smallish office of no more than 50 and there’s the social pressure of not leaving a mess), anything else is a recipe for disaster for cleanliness and safety.

Based on the data in Invisible Women however I think it’ll be a massive own goal if this goes ahead. The second men have to start waiting for the lengths of time women do, the majority of men will be shouting from the rooftops how rediculous it is that they start to miss trains, spend entire intervals at shows waiting to go to the bathroom, or just having to spend ten times as long doing something very basic. And as it’ll be men complaining, they will obviously be listened too. I can see it now - woman with child in tow waiting for the loo, man in suit comes in and says “would you mind me going ahead, I’ll only be a second” and social conditioning will mean we let them.

It would come to something if feminists ended up unwitting accomplainces to religion in perpuating the ongoing suppression of women.

You mean like the kind of oppression you’re pushing onto ALL women, regardless of their wishes.

It would come to something if feminists ended up unwitting accomplainces to religion in perpuating the ongoing suppression of women

Except that that is not what is happening.

All male, men and one transwoman

There's a fucking surprise.

Well colour me blue loo...

Oooo do be careful.

I dont believe as a society we should endorse the ongoing suppression of women by specific religions. By allowing the ongoing segregation of women and making it acceptable are we not endorsing and perpetuating it?

It would come to something if feminists ended up unwitting accomplainces to religion in perpuating the ongoing suppression of women.

All male, men and one transwoman.

What a shock. I hope you’re not suggesting that they have an ulterior motive. That Never Happens!

The list from the link;

Honorary President Richard Chisnell
Managing Director Raymond Martin
Chairman Simon Hollingbery
& Committee Member
Committee Member Andrew McIlduff Danfo (UK) Ltd
Committee Member Piers Dibben Healthmatic Ltd
Committee Member Trudi Osborne Airdri Limited
Committee Member John Tweddle Westminster City Council
Committee Member Roger Berry Political Adviser

I give you the list of the Honorary President, managing director and committee members of the British Toilet Association.

All male, men and one transwoman. I haven't looked much further into their motivations, might be worth a further dig if anyone has the time/resources as a way to combat their lobbying for gender neutral loos:

www.btaloos.co.uk/?page_id=7

No, I don't Hazel. I recognise a wide variety of people and their needs, including people living with a range of disabilities. In the case of toilet provision women's need for dedicated, single-sex provision is paramount. I'm not sure that you recognise anyone else's needs other than that of your son. You certainly show zero consideration of the needs of women who for reasons of faith cannot use mixed-sex facilities. You are an atheist. Your words. So their needs don't matter.

YetAnotherSpartacus

Do you?
53.2% of people with disabilities were in employment, up from 51.2% a year previously. The employment rate for people without disabilities was 81.8%, up from 81.4%. 300,000 people with disabilities were unemployed (source government briefing)

www.jrf.org.uk/data/poverty-rates-families-disabled-person ifyou have a disabled person in your household your between 50% and twice as likely to be in poverty. Difference of between 19% and 30-50%

I could go on....

We tend to live in echo chambers. We pick friends whose values agree with your own. Speak for yourself. I run my own business and I’m very open about my feminism and my wishes to protect women, so I speak quite openly to my customers. I’ve only ever had ONE woman think like you. She also didn’t believe in feminism. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Doesnt mean it doesn't exist. I’ve no doubt that others think like you. We see them on here quite often, berating females.

^^ Jewish, Hindu and Moslem women etc.

Realistically 3 spaces will mean they slap a gender neutral sign on the disabled

Every disabled loo I've ever seen is "gender neutral", ie mixed sex. My husband was disabled, I went ti multiple disabled loos with him, including airports, restaurants, etc. Never seen a sign other than the disabled sign on it -- they don't need a "gender neutral" sign.

I dont view religion, which historically has been one of the biggest surpresssers of women as a good argument. Not in a predominantly atheist country.

So, because you are an atheist, you believe that Jewish, Hindu and Moslem should not have access to single-sex toilets. Lovely.

I also doubt that Britain is a predominantly atheist country. Even if the traditionally majority religion, Christianity, has lost its appeal for many, even if people don't go to church or call themselves Christian any more, if you dig deeper you'll find that many still pray when it comes to the crunch. Add to those millions of Moslems, Hindus, Sikhs and Jews, you can't really speak of a "majority atheist" society. And even if you could -- this has nothing to do with most women wanting single sex loos.

We tend to live in echo chambers

You certainly do.

because why should the majority interest be compromised for a few?

The way you’re trying to strip rights from every.single.female, including the vulnerable, disabled, oppressed (your words regarding religion), abused and those that simply want privacy. How very kind and inclusive of you.

Every single woman I know and have discussed this with, don’t want mixed sex toilets,

We tend to live in echo chambers. We pick friends whose values agree with your own. Doesnt mean it doesn't exist.

Hahaha good one. I'll take my (limited) lack of privilege as a woman over DS lack of access to education finance employment toileting..... and now outside space

You really have no concept of the world outside of your little bubble have you?

Every single woman I know and have discussed this with, don’t want mixed sex toilets, especially the mothers of disabled children.