New Opt Out Organ Donation System comes into effect today

Once you're dead, your body/organs should be available for research/transplants etc I think many people are not aware that the harvested person is not dead at the time the organs are removed. The person is anaesthetised during the process just in case they are aware. This means that if you donate your relative's organs then you don't get to sit with them as they die, they are taken away and operated to death.

I really hope that technology will come through and we will have lab-grown human tissue that will end the need for this macabre process.

Human beings, when dead, are not a junkyard full of spare parts that can be taken at will. In order for organ transplants to be in any way ethical there needs to be actual, full, informed consent, which this is not. It has nothing to do with being gender critical and everything to do with placing limits on what governments can do to citizens and the monetizing of people's bodies.

In China it's prisoners and Uighers in detainment camps who're having their organs harvested. In the West I'm guessing it will be the homeless who'll somehow no longer be able to be saved in situations where previously they would have been. And from there the principle will just keep on seeping into other areas, because precedents are dangerous things.

Death is not a very straightforward yes/no state. Death is a process

At risk of derailing the thread, by the latest thinking from great minds of Twitter this logically implies death doesn't exist, which will be a big relief to many. An additional implication would be that anyone should be able to change their legal status from living to dead through a process of self-identification, without necessarily having to undergo euthanasia beforehand. Someone should tell them so they can start organising conferences on Queering Death and cancelling coroners.

the regulations have been revised to clarify further that tissue from sexual and reproductive organs, including skin, will not be transplanted without express consent regardless of the type of transplant, routine or novel. This is to give assurance...

That phrase illustrates perfectly the sinister acceptance that all other organs will be taken without express consent

A tacit acknowledgement that express consent is irrelevant.

The principle of not needing consent regarding bodily autonomy will now creep into other laws.
If 'presumed' consent is palatable to a nation, there are a myriad of circumstances where express consent might now be argued unnecessary on principle.

I’m presuming there is no opt out for reproductive tissue because reproductive transplants are not actually a thing, even if they might become such in the future
It's already happened I dont recall if it was successful, but a woman somewhere has had a uterus transplant.
Not to mention vagina transplants, which uses donated tissue.

reproductive transplants are not actually a thing

Womb transplants have been done. To be absolutely clear whilst I doubt mine is of any use now I would not consent to it being given to a woman or a trans woman.

And clearly reproductive research is ongoing. For the moment reproductive organs and tissue seem to be excluded. I will need to think very carefully about this- if it is the case reproductive organs and tissue are fully excluded and will always be fully excluded then I will not opt out.

I’m presuming there is no opt out for reproductive tissue because reproductive transplants are not actually a thing, even if they might become such in the future.
True, but I'm still wary of having my eggs used in research as well.

reproductive transplants are not actually a thing
It’s already been done successfully. It’s not commonplace but the technology is there. And egg implantation has been done for a number of years.

Matilda, I'm really sorry to hear about your sister. That must have been very hard.

And AlternativePerspective, thanks for such a thoughtful and compassionate post. I hope you stay healthy and well, and off the list.

I find this idea:

'Organ donation shouldn't be optional imo. Once you're dead, your body/organs should be available for research/transplants etc'

Utterly chilling.

Death is not a very straightforward yes/no state. Death is a process; at which point should one's body become property of the state? Perhaps even prior to death would be okay, if it were, say, from a criminal to save a more deserving or wealthier host? If you think this sounds like sci-fi, maybe read up on China harvesting organs from prisoners.

Some people have a very mechanistic philosophy/belief about the body, many other people have religious or personal beliefs that call for their body to be treated with respect and certain protocols.

I also wonder if this is putting medics in a difficult position. They're going to be making very difficult decisions at a very difficult time. I'm sure it'll never be easy, but as said above by Alternative, the solution is far more conversation around the matter, not a stripping of rights and autonomy.

The issue of bodily consent is very pertinent to feminism.

“Women unsurprisingly do not want their genetic material harvested. This is a massive human rights issue”

‘If you’ve ever had a blood test done, your “genetic material” has been harvested. They don’t need an ovum to clone you or study your DNA or match your DNA to a crime scene or a relative.’

Molecular cloning from DNA has been pretty unsuccessful in humans. We’re a lot further away from that than we are from harvesting eggs from living and dead women and girls without their consent.

The thing is gronky, even if I did think that my dsis, who had always carried an organ donation card, should have been prioritised over the woman in the next bed who (with her entire extended family) still refused to go on the organ donor list (because.. usual conspiracy rubbish/it’s not nice) despite already having received two organs, it would be irrelevant. The only thing that matters is clinical need. And that’s right. The alternative would be X-Factor for organs - who is the best person? Who has the best sob story?

But my point still remains. Please, please don’t use this issue to get gender critical brownie points.

😁

Thank you totally

I’m still leaving the thread 😀 I shouldn’t be allowed access To a keyboard today

want = meant 😳

Sorry, Rufus. I misunderstood. I thought you ,want I was lacking in empathy. It’s more a case of me lacking in glasses. 🤓😳😁

No gronky i really wasnt clear

Should have done it in two posts

Anyway I’m off now, its an interesting thread but probably one I should avoid posting on if im unable to actually type anything rational!

Im agreeing with you aren’t I totally

I thought you were saying that people who say that you have to donate to receive are leading the way to saying that people who smoke or are overweight shouldn’t receive treatment...which is stupid

See And the whole ‘no organs For you unless you are prepared To donate’ is another....its not a hop skip and a jump to ‘ no blood for you unless you donate’

I’m presuming there is no opt out for reproductive tissue because reproductive transplants are not actually a thing, even if they might become such in the future.

RufustheLanglovingreindeer, sorry for the misunderstanding on my end.

Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies, I'm extremely sorry if you got the impression I was speaking on behalf of all people who'd watched a loved one die awaiting an organ and I'm very sorry for your loss. I was speculating why someone might feel that way, not that every person who's suffered a loss would feel that way.

It's concerning there's no opt out for reproductive tissue.

I keep reading this but it seems from the screenshots that you're opting in on specific organs, meaning you'd be opting out on reproductive tissue by default. I can't check the site specifically in that way because I don't want to opt out on anything.

The people I know who are very vociferous in support on presumed consent, and organ donation in general, have lost loved ones and are therefore very attached to the idea of organ donation as something which gave meaning and purpose to deaths which was otherwise incomprehensibly cruel and difficult. I hold no animosity towards them.

However, I have always been personally opposed to presumed consent, as I actually think the gift aspect of organ donation is the saving grace in a system which would otherwise be appalling utilitarianism. Therefore, regardless of specifics about organs, I have opted out because I fundamentally object to automatic state ownership of dead bodies and the affront to the dignity of human beings by reducing us to spare parts.

Opt out is a headline grabber and nothing more.Your next of kin still have the final say

Throughout life we fight for bodily autonomy but it seems that we wish our bodies to just become the property of the state when we die rather than those who know us best and who will be personally suffering the loss being able to make those decisions on our behalf?

As for the argument that if you wouldn’t donate your organs then you shouldn’t be allowed to receive one,that is purely an emotive argument and has no intelligent basis what so ever.

You are far more likely to need an organ than to be in a position to be a donor.

Organ donation is a gift,it should never be seen as an entitlement and neither should our bodies be viewed as commodities.

I need a heart transplant.I’m currently well enough not to be on the list but have been told that I will likely deteriorate in the next year (although am hoping that doesn’t happen,obviously). But this time last year I was actually told that I wasn’t eligible for a transplant and would be sent home to die (not the exact wording, but the implication was very clear). And it may still happen that I’m not eligible (have had some interim procedures which have improved my quality somewhat but there’s always a way back if you get my drift.). I am not under any illusions. I know full well I might ultimately not be suitable for a transplant,or that a donor heart won’t be found in time. That doesn’t mean that other people should be coerced into having their organs removed.

The idea that in order to receive an organ you are waiting,and therefore hoping for someone to die is not a comfortable one.If you add into the mix that you could therefore also be assured that the next person who dies is essentially yours for the taking because the state has decreed that it should be that way then the whole idea of donation has been lost. In fact,if the state simply has the right to your organs then it’s not a donation is it?

The ultimate key to more donors is more conversation around speaking to families,making your wishes known before you’re in a position where they have to make those decisions on your behalf.

There is very little evidence that opt out actually increases the number of organs available,in fact in countries such as Spain which is often upheld of a prime example of opt-out working these figures have only increased since more emphasis has been placed on conversations with next of kin.

Oh and if you want your wishes re organ donation to be carried out then you need to have an advance directive and appoint a legal power of attorney.

I was agreeing with banana that this comment was stupid and showed lack of empathy

Next it will be saying that people who do something else that affects their OWN health, such as being overweight, smoking or taking part in dangerous sports, shouldn’t receive treatment

Could you explain who I’m showing a lack of empathy towards?

Sorry to hear that matilda 💐

It's concerning there's no opt out for reproductive tissue.

I've always been an organ donor and want to continue to be one, but I'm not happy having my reproductive system transplanted or my eggs being used.

gronky

Ive just rechecked my post

I was agreeing with banana that this comment was stupid and showed lack of empathy Next it will be saying that people who do something else that affects their OWN health, such as being overweight, smoking or taking part in dangerous sports, shouldn’t receive treatment

The organ bit i felt was a stupid comment as it could be extrapolated out to mean blood donation etc

So wasn’t referring to empathy though I didn’t make that clear

Then i felt the urge to defend something I didn’t mean