New Opt Out Organ Donation System comes into effect today

No, I would like to understand. Is your range of 'permitted' opinions limited to those that you can understand, despite your frustrations at your inability to prevent those you don't? That seems rather unpleasant.

Of course not, but it rather seems that you struggle with the concept that others might have opinions that differ from yours and that those might matter in terms of what's done to their bodies. This whole thread has been rather eye opening in that regard.

*This is another benefit of opt out: those questions won't be asked of relatives of those who have had their decision to opt out recorded.^

I hope you realize how grossly manipulative this is.

Do you feel that people aren't allowed to have those? Certainly there's no way for you to prevent them from doing so.

No, I would like to understand. Is your range of 'permitted' opinions limited to those that you can understand, despite your frustrations at your inability to prevent those you don't? That seems rather unpleasant.

I also think that's an awful situation to be put in when you're already scared and sad and beginning to grieve, and if I was on the receiving end of those kinds of questions at that time I strongly suspect I'd get very angry

This is another benefit of opt out: those questions won't be asked of relatives of those who have had their decision to opt out recorded.

@Al1Langdownthecleghole it's the sanitary bin raiding ones who will probably be after the real thing, if they are happy to wear soiled sanitary towels from public toilets, then I'm sure a saggy but real breast is a fetishists dream. Especially if they came with no real consent.

My concern would be that those grieving, would not have the strength to understand what the soon to be dead person, wants

This is something that concerns me not about the current system change, but about how the system seems to be working in general in many countries. People from the US in particular have reported grieving relatives being put under a lot of pressure to donate the organs of their loved ones who're dying (or who may die but that isn't certain yet, which is its own issue), and I've heard similar stories from other countries. In practical terms I understand why medical staff approach them then, but I also think that's an awful situation to be put in when you're already scared and sad and beginning to grieve, and if I was on the receiving end of those kinds of questions at that time I strongly suspect I'd get very angry, especially if they were persistent and didn't accept my first answer. From the perspective of those already sure that they want to donate and that their loved ones would too I'm not sure they're quite understanding how intrusive and upsetting that might be to those who feel differently. Or maybe they do know but think that it serves the greater good for that to happen and therefore the feelings of those people don't really matter.

Yes I'm being forward looking. Not just at the current governance, what happens when a different political party gets in.

Ah, parents will have to opt their children out of the scheme, too. Thanks for the reminder, Lillian.

I understand that it falls under personal feelings but I specifically meant personal feelings about the fate of their body after death

Do you feel that people aren't allowed to have those? Certainly there's no way for you to prevent them from doing so.

I find your badgering rude in the extreme

Irony highpoint of the thread!

A few posters might have been confused about this, but I think mainly people are concerned about the legal implications of the opt out system as a whole, especially down the line.It's not difficult to imagine even that reproductive tissues could later be included if that kind of procedure is seen as basic medicine everyone has a right to.

Yes, I think many of us who're concerned are thinking rather more long term than "what if this was relevant to me next month, or next year". Some of us will also be thinking of what happens when our loved ones die, and if this would impact our ability to make sure their wishes are respected.

*donor, not diner. That’s a whole other issue.

My concern would be that those grieving, would not have the strength to understand what the soon to be dead person, wants. If they’re told the person dying are a diner, what’s the likelihood that they’ll say ‘oh yes, except for her womb, eggs, etc” For that reason I’m opting out and will opt out my daughter as she does not have capacity to decide. I won’t have her reproductive organs or skin used for ANY other purposes.

I see that skin is on the list of 'up for grabs' and sadly, my cynical mind says that will mean breasts being given to AGP men who 'need' them to feel like a woman.

Whats the issue with reproductive organs, some sort of Frankenstein transgender thing

I objected in the consultation to women's genitalia being included in the "up for grabs" category, i.e. not being on the exclusion list. Given the extent of capture of medical bodies, it was easy to envision a future where improvements in transplant technology could mean that dead women's body parts are freely available to men who want them for fetishistic reasons.

That struck me as a nightmarish dystopia to be avoided, and thankfully female genitalia are on the exclusion list now, and that cannot be changed without another law being passed. So yeah, the trans issue was the primary basis of my objection.

Whilst I have now opted out of this new assumed consent, and I stand by that, it might not be out of the question, totally, if under very specific circumstances surrounding my death ( with prior awareness of it, and with time to prepare) I might gift a specific organ to a specific recipient; but certainly only of my choosing. Say a family member, or close friend, for example. I would certainly wish to retain the right of choice when it came to my bodily integrity.

Bananabixfloof, sorry if it wasn't clear, I understand that it falls under personal feelings but I specifically meant personal feelings about the fate of their body after death. It's not even as if the person who may receive an organ is the one asking the question in the 'wrong' way.

I can understand why people refuse donation on the basis of religion or personal feelings about the fate of their body after death but I've never been able to understand this notion
Well it comes under personal feelings
Hth

You'd rather risk someone dying without a heart transplant to avoid the extremely unlikely event of somebody born male being given reproductive organs.

Yes. It's sad. But there's no way I'm donating my reproductive organs to anyone. Even if it's just a tiny chance. No way. So if someone loses out on a heart transplant because of that then so be it. An clear option to completely opt out of donating reproduction organs would solve the problem 🤷‍♀️

Its supposed to be a gift, presumed consent takes away my option to gift my body parts.

I can understand why people refuse donation on the basis of religion or personal feelings about the fate of their body after death but I've never been able to understand this notion.

Hmm, meant to say that it is easy to imagine - not difficult.

There is no opt out for reproductive tissues on the website BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE OPT-OUT SYSTEM. You will still have to give express consent to donate them.

A few posters might have been confused about this, but I think mainly people are concerned about the legal implications of the opt out system as a whole, especially down the line.It's not difficult to imagine even that reproductive tissues could later be included if that kind of procedure is seen as basic medicine everyone has a right to.

PrimeroseHillAnnie

Whats the issue with reproductive organs, some sort of Frankenstein transgender thing ?

I can't speak for others but my objection has nothing to do with transgender rights although I do find some aspects of assisted conception and fertility treatment bordering on Frankenstein- but that applies to xx female recipients.

I strongly oppose assisted fertility/assisted conception and always have done. I'm not religious at all- it just seems the ultimate in "me , me,me "gimme, gimme" leading to the nightmare scenario we have now of up to 1,000 unclaimed products languishing in Romania.

Since I have already said I would when I could, I find your badgering rude in the extreme. And yes, there is a subtext.

Rude in the extreme? I see. I believe we cross-posted. I'm still not sure how I was supposed to read your initial comment If somebody is kind enough to donate their dong, it should go to whoever is in need of a dong, regardless of their previous dong toting status, as well as religion, race, etc etc and from that extrapolate that actually you meant someone donating a kidney to an ethnic minority.

But I am being rude, again. So sorry.

There is no opt out for reproductive tissues on the website BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE OPT-OUT SYSTEM. You will still have to give express consent to donate them

Ive opted out because the presumption that my body is up for grabs for someone else's benefit fucking irks me.
Its supposed to be a gift, presumed consent takes away my option to gift my body parts.
it's a hop away from pretty much everything being banned because bad for you and your body that will be used as spare parts sooner or later.

You seem to have read the frothing and failed to notice the quite clearly laid out arguments.

Mine, for example, is not against reproductive tissue per se, but the presumption of organ donation.

HTH. Do feel free to come back and tell us off again if you feel the need, though.