'Kiss on the cheek'- a crime or sexual assault

Also the officers that investigate murder and the officers that investigate sexual assault often aren’t the same department.

And Derbyshire and Lancashire police are 2 completely separate forces.

And they’ve already arrested some suspects in the drive by shooting case.

Apart from that, your Whataboutery is spot on...

PlanDeRaccordement

Contrary to what shitty TV police dramas would have you believe, the police investigate more than one case at a time...

The police have shit form for being interested when some women are killed by exes etc anyway

So they may be operating on the something worse going on approach already.

Well that poster had said that the police shouldn't bother themselves with this while worse was going on.

There's always something worse going on somewhere is the problem with that.

To think it's AOK for men to go around kissing random 70yo women during Corona, while the police are in fact fining people for not adhering to social distancing, is just weird.

And I'm still surprised that someone wouldn't know that older people are more at risk.

Yes it's really annoying which is why I replied to you using the same term. But you seem put out that I've deliberately misrepresented your position when you did exactly the same yourself to another poster.

I don't remember writing gotcha on my post! Really annoys me when people write that

How weird.

Anyway yes obviously I don't think 19 yo girls dying is AOK what an odd thing to suggest.

Gotcha?

Haven't you seen the news in the last few weeks? Older people are at much higher risk in this pandemic.

I can't believe that's a serious comment.

And no men shouldn't be going around kissing 19 yo girls they only just met on the cheek either.

Gotcha indeed

Are we still on playful or have we moved into banter?

@BeetrootRocks
So the life of a 19 year old woman is of no importance. Gotcha.

Gas coin this, Gas coin that..

Do you have a chuffing season ticket?

So in your opinion it's fine for men to go around kissing 70yo women they've only just met while Corona virus is happening.

Gotcha.

I think the police have better things to do, such as tracking down the monster who shot and killed a 19yr old woman walking by Aldi
arynews.tv/en/muslim-woman-guned-down-england/

Ooh did you think I didn't know that? How patronising.

It's absolutely ridiculous to support all women all the time just because.

Of course you are choosing to ignore that I fully agree that what happened could be prosecuted as an assault. It would have a far better chance of succeeding as an assault rather than being thrown out as a sexual assault, as happened in the Gascoigne case because it lacked sexual intent.

Apologies for not crediting Andrea Dworkin.

"Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy in behalf of women as a class, including all the women you don't like, including all the women you don't want to be around, including all the women who used to be your best friends whom you don't want anything to do with anymore. It doesn't matter who the individual women are."

But you're not a feminist, blah, blah, blah..

No I don't support "all women" ...

Colour me surprised.

I helped out a stranger a few months ago and he was so grateful and relieved that he asked if he could hug me.

I said yes.

Would he have asked to hug a man? Probably not. But I would have expected it to have elicited a warm handshake. Does that matter? Well, it depends, there are different cultural norms around interactions between men and women and I didn't regard it as disrespectful.

He had sought my consent and that was fine. Would have been a very different matter if he'd just done it.

Consent is everything when it comes to close physical contact with another person.

I think for me it's that it's an unwanted touch. He kissed her and it was clearly not with her consent and made her feel uncomfortable. Her body her choice. It was a big assumption on his part that kissing her was acceptable and appropriate....
And then to layer that with the fact he should have been socially distancing makes it even worse.

Surely you just don’t kiss someone unless it’s obvious they are comfortable with it. But in these times, when there’s a virus you really shouldn’t kiss anyone outside of your household, especially if they’re vulnerable.

I'm not a fan of the French bise, anyway, and neither are some French women.
Women tend to kiss both men and women, men kiss only women.

No, men faire la bise with each other too. Probably not as often, but I saw it reasonably often pre-confinement.

Her age being 70 is relevent in Corona virus times.

While we are supposed to stay 2m apart, kissing a stranger on the cheek is obviously off.

I would dispute the PPs who say it is normal in the UK to kiss a stranger on the cheek to say thanks, whatever sexes are involved.

I also used to work for a multinational company and colleagues from countries where 1, 2 or even 3 cheek kisses were the norm there was a pattern. The men and women would kiss the UK women. The the women would kiss the UK men. The men would shake hands with the UK men presumably to respect their cultural norms. So yes there are sexist divisions.

That aside. Kissing random people on the cheek to say thanks is not a thing in the UK IME, I live in London. Kissing random elderly women on the cheek right now is definitely off.

I notice the BBC piece also says haha what a ridiculous over reaction. Which annoyed me. So social distance unless it's an elderly woman in which case get up close?

The woman is seventy, yeah? She reported it to the police

What has her age got to do with anything?

Why the fuck are some people quibbling about it?

Heaven forfend that anyone should express the view that a kiss is automatically a sexual act.

Do we support all women including the ones who are 70?

No I don't support "all women" - regardless of what their age is.

For this to be a sexual assault there needs to be sexual intent on the part of the accused. It is his intent which matters. I don't think there is any poster who hasn't said this is an assault.

Several posters, quite rightly, have pointed out, that a kiss does not automatically imply sexual assault. The jury in the Gascoigne case found him not guilty because they believed there was no sexual intent.

It is not doing her any service at all to bring a case of sexual assault when he quite obviously will say it was just spontaneous thanks for helping him out when a case of assault, in the present circumstances, has a much better chance of sticking.

Pertella

I think that makes sense, but different cultures seem to have some real differences in what people think of as too intimate though. Even things like how close you stand, or whether you sit next to someone or far away if you have a choice. I would say there is a sort of a range where your sense of what feels right depends a lot on what you are used to.

Forms of address are similar in a way - some cultures are very formal and some very casual. When someone moves from one culture to the other, they may feel uncomfortable whichever direction they are moving in.

I think a lot of it is to do with the concept of intimacy 'bubbles' (I cant remember the correct term!) as well as social convention.

Handshakes are seen as less 'intimate' because you can maintain a distance whilst doing it, but they can soon turn uncomfortable if the other person holds on too long.

Cheek kissing requires a greater level of 'intimacy' which may be granted to friends but not a stranger.