Intersexphobia - is that a thing now?

God this stuff makes me so angry. So many people suffering real discrimination in the world and these organisations just slap -phobia on the end of words and delude themselves that they're keeping themselves relevant.
Couldn't agree more.

Bollocks does anyone have intersexphobia.

They might have a phobia of a made-up idea of intersex people (probably based on hentai), but if anyone is going to be guilty of that it would be transactivists and other groups mainly populated by teenagers.

People do not go around with phobias of people with congenital chromosomal conditions of sex development, because they often need specialist medical involvement to even detect. Y'know, because they affect very complex internal organs.

People inclined to fearing others based on their medical conditions reserve their phobia for people with visible chromosomal abnormalities, such as trisomy of chromosome pair 21 (otherwise known as Down Syndrome) people with missing digits or excess digits oh, and people with chromosomal disorders that affect facial appearance. Ask Melissa Blake, disability advocate on twitter about that. Searingly intelligent, witty, thoughtful woman, and people send her abuse for posting selfies of herself on her own social media account. Apparently she needs to hide herself away from the world's eyes. People even use images of her face to scare their children and friends.

God this stuff makes me so angry. So many people suffering real discrimination in the world and these organisations just slap -phobia on the end of words and delude themselves that they're keeping themselves relevant.

And they are actively campaigning for the exact opposite of what intersex campaigners have long advocated for: that children need time and maturity, and need to reach adulthood before irreversible hormonal and surgical options are imposed on children.

Yes, I believe this was one of the reasons the group I mentioned refused to 'work with' the transactivist group. But it seems, TRAs found a way to 'link' DSDs and gender identity anyways

I find most TRA types to be phobic of those who have DSDs, tbh. With a hell of a lot of their 'we are JUST LIKE YOU, we have intersex brains!!!!!!!' rhetoric, and making out like DSDs are their own seperate sex, and such, but only actually giving a shit when they can be used as a pawn in an argument. One support group for people with a certain DSD had a large Q+A I read once, of how one of the TRA groups (GIRES) I think, started attending support groups and 'stealing' the stories of the people sharing, and then tweaking them to be about 'trans' people instead..I dont remember the link but remember the content, I have looked and cannot find, but I am sure someone will have it saved somewhere (wish I had thought)

Yeah, that kind of thing I think is extremely phobic.

And because they are too uneducated/dumb to realise that DSDs are caused by a genetic disorder or mutation and hence are an illness/exception to the norm, not an alternative. And that people with DSDs are still either male or female, however they identify.

I don't know how they lost sight of 'you can be one of 2 sexes but then your sexuality is what ever you want/feel it to be". All those AGP older men dressing up as little girls are males who get off on pretending they are teenage girls. That is a fetish and part of sexuality, not sex, or gender.

They have shamelessly appropriated DSDs in order to try and argue that biological sex is a spectrum and therefore blokes should be allowed in women's spaces and to compete in women's sports.

'Intersexphobia' is just an extension of that appropriation.

Do none of these idiots know what the word phobia means?

LastTrainEast there is still a lot of anger from the Deaf community towards those of us with cochlear implants. There is a noticeable gulf between Deaf and deaf communities and how they perceive their integration in society. Those of us that are deaf generally see no problem with hearing aids, BAHAs and cochlear implants and enjoy the benefits they bring such as the ability to hear music, birdsong, children etc. People who consider themselves Deaf tend to exist in bubbles of other Deaf people and have a culture of no hearing and consider doing anything to gain some hearing as an attack.

Personally I don't know any Deaf people, only deaf ones but have heard numerous others talk about the hostility they face from the Deaf.

It's piggy backing on other people's oppression again.

Years ago, when I first read this, it was always 'trans and migrants'

Then it was 'trans and expecially trans POC'

There's been a few more in there - it's never just trans - it's always 'trans and ' so that if you object they can leap to the defence of the second group and avoid whatever point you were making about trans.

It's both laughable, and yet effective as a strategy.

Thanks for the links. I hope we are past feeling shame for medical conditions too.

Obviously each decision to have surgery should be based on that individual situation. Though I'm fine with fixing things before they become serious problems for that person. Not to please other people.

And yes people with DSD seem to be a handy tool for other people now. Before that it was rare to hear a mention at all.

The poster who revived this thread though appears to have an agenda of her own picked up from god knows where.

As for objecting to corrective surgery there used to be a group dedicated to preventing operations to allow deaf children to hear that used similar arguments.

'DSD' covers a huge range of conditions. I think its impossible to make broad statements about when surgery is or isn't necessary.

Many children weren't told about their conditons and the reason they were having surgery was kept a secret.

Good follows on the subject of DSDs are:

Intersex facts:
mobile.twitter.com/intersexfacts

And

Clare
twitter.com/ClareCAIS?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

And

Aphrodite's offspring
twitter.com/RaeUK

Again I think people with DSDs need to speak for themselves. They shouldn't be used as pawns in anybody's fight.

There are not three equal sexes. Intersex people are still either male or female.

As for objecting to corrective surgery there used to be a group dedicated to preventing operations to allow deaf children to hear that used similar arguments.

Perhaps they still exist. I can only hope we have progressed beyond that kind of thing.

I think its true that many people who have intersex conditions have been brought up to feel ashamed of their condition, and parents sometimes hide the condition from their children.

However, I'd rather hear intersex people speak for themselves.

17th May is the international day against homophobia but I don't think continually adding letters to 'LGB' is helpful. It makes proper coherent advocacy on behalf of any group impossible.

Is it just me or are there a lot of old threads being bumped at the moment?

No, intersex is not a sex - there is no third reproductive role and no third type of gametes. I also don't believe the majority of intersex people consider themselves as a third sex, indeed I follow several on Twitter and they are usually very clear about themselves, and people with DSDs in general, still being either male or female.

Nor is it necessarily healthy - while some people may be less severely affected than others, some DSDs such as CAS can "cause serious health issues, such as life-threatening kidney problems that need to be treated as soon as possible" (from NHS website), also many of these conditions (which are a wide range, with different effects and varying in severity) can cause infertility or reduced fertility, with the associated heartache that may involve.

As for "Medicine is informed by a mythology of a science of polarities, it is I'm afraid a fascistic form of social political economic control. "

I am not sure that calling things "phobias" is really very useful or revealing in most cases.

Agree.

I'm rummaging around for my supposed "internalised intersexism" and coming up empty. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I just think I'd be aware of an irrational and overwhelming fear if I had one...

I don't see how anyone can have a phobia of something that can't be perceived when people are clothed, or sometimes not even when they aren't. And lots of people with DSDs don't even know it themselves. This has to be bandwagon stuff, surely, with the TRAs hitching a ride on other people's medical condition?

Actually when small aDD really struggled with evolution and the fact that humans were a type of animal.

Oh I think they are redefining the word sex to be context specific.

If talking about none human life forms it means what it always has, biological reproductive stuff

If we talking about Homo sapiens it means something else

There are only two sexes. Only an egg and a sperm can combine to form a new human being. Where exactly is a 'third sex' to be found in humans or any other animal species? What other kind of gamete can be fused with an egg or a sperm to create new life?

People with differences /disorders of sexual development are still either male or female, and some might have fertility or hormonal issues due to their condition. This doesn't turn them into some 'other' category. Actual numbers of people where it is not very straightforward to determine their sex are fairly small.

People can be born with missing limbs or eyes. Doesn't mean there are two types of human beings - ones with two legs and ones with one leg.

Unless there is a life saving medical reason, surgery should not be carried out on the genitals of babies or infants in misguided attempts to 'normalise' them. There is nothing bad or wrong about genitalia that is smaller or larger than average. It still doesn't turn people with DSDs into a third sex. They will still either produce sperm or eggs if their testes or ovaries are functioning, otherwise they will be infertile. Infertility is unfortunate, but doesn't turn you into a third sex.

Globally, as of 2019, 131 million people are born intersex, that is 1 in 60 people have visible traits documented through medicine at birth. My personal view is the intersex population is much higher at upwards of 5% as not all intersex people can be identified by visibly at birth. Not all intersex people demonstrate traits so that at birth this would be noticed, some do later in childhood or later in life and others never know. Intersex people are stigmatised unnecessarily as it is deemed society would not accept them, I do not feel this is actually the case, I believe individuals would be very welcoming. Intersex people like myself are often misrepresented by the heteronormative- binary view of the world, that there are only two sexes, when there are at least three. Intersex, Woman, Man are three Equal sexes. Intersex is not gender, it is a healthy sex. Intersex people are eradicated and rendered politically invisible, some through unnecessary surgical interventions, others through societal binary gendering, where they are forced to choose identification as a man or a woman. So in answer to your question. Yes, intersexphobia, and genderism are credible and real. Maternity wards and medical practitioners often are aware of intersex people, yet they are informed and trained by gendered institutionalised intersexism by only acting as if the only options are boy or girl. Medicine is informed by a mythology of a science of polarities, it is I'm afraid a fascistic form of social political economic control. That continues to abuse intersex people (previously known as hermaphrodites). Intersex people are wrongly pathologised, shame stamped with ridiculous medical labels all so that socio-political-economic capitalist infrastructures do not have to factor in intersex people as healthy sex. So yes its real and its deeply institutionalised inter sexism. Just like engrained institutionalised racism or homophobia. Its a problem. Now you know, you can work through your own internalised intersexism and educate others to do the same.

I am not sure that calling things "phobias" is really very useful or revealing in most cases.

I've a feeling that most people who add the "I" to LGBTI+ have no idea what intersex actually is.