Autism : providing healthy and positive alternatives to Gender Identity ideology

Knox, have a look at Ada Twist, Scientist, a story about a girl who wants to be a scientist.

Here's another story about a girl, by the same author, read by a woman astronaut on the ISS:

https://storytimefromspace.com/rosie-revere-engineer-2/

Aw thanks all, so nice and reassuring to hear you agree with our approach. It’s not something there’s much guidance on (that isn’t dripping with regressive sexist BS) so we kind of decided to wing it with what we felt was right.

We want her to grow up understanding and respecting that other people feel and believe different things and we always have to be kind and tolerant of others, but that being a girl means she can dress/do/say/like/play with/wear whatever she likes and still be a girl.

I think it helps she now has a little brother (almost 2 years old) who likes to carry around her rag dolls, a little pink baby dolly and her baby doll pram, which as I say we provided her with a range of “gendered” () toys to choose from and she never showed the slightest bit of interest in. So she sees him playing with “girls” toys alongside the trains/diggers/dinosaurs without anyone passing comment.

He also loves to choose and wear one of her sparkly hair clips when she picks one in the mornings. In fact, she said the other day “he looks like a girl” (in a pink sparkly clip) and I said “don’t be ridiculous, he’s just a boy with a pink hair clip, he likes it because it’s shiny and it’s yours DD.” So I hope all of these drip drip drip messages will instill themselves in her

Thanks for the book and program recommendations 👍

Knoxinbox, rather.

What a great thread!

My neurodivergency was only identified within the last 5 years.

I was a teenager in the 00s, and I've been clear in my own mind since then that I surely would have been trans myself, if my family had been inclined to tell me that 'this is for boys' 'this is for girls' all the time.

My family got a lot 'wrong' in my childhood, I certainly didn't grow up in a feminist space at all, but one thing I've always been glad of was that the concept of girls' stuff vs boys' stuff was openly ridiculed (by my mother especially).

It seemed logical to me (still does), that if I'd been told over and over
"you can't do that, you shouldn't like that, you're a girl, that's for boys"
(dinosaurs, bugs, trucks, science, space, encyclopaedias, mud, climbing, dungarees, etc)

and "you must do this, you ought to like this, girls have to do this, boys don't"
(pink, dollies, dresses, sewing, etc)
then of course I would have concluded that I'm really a boy 'on the inside'! For a 'gender non-conforming' child who grows surrounded by people who enforce 'gender conformity', it's a rational conculsion.

Your description of your daughter sounds so like me at that age, Knoxinabox! :) I think you're approaching this really well. :)

My dd LOVES Dino Dana!

Has she seen Dino Dana on Amazon? She'd love it!

I think thats a great approach Knox

You've just reminded me of that transgender trend book for young children illustrated but Jessica Albergh, it's all about how we can change our clothes and dress up and all are different in our own skin. Beautiful book.

Great thread and one I’ve considered asking for myself. My DD is 5 and diagnosed ASD and I worry about her future as she has always been drawn to stereotypically “boy” interests like vehicles, dinosaurs and science. She’s never been remotely interested in dolls and prams and pink sparkly stuff and is happier in a dinosaur t shirt digging in the mud or reading her science and nature encyclopaedias (she is hyperlexic and has been reading fluently since 4).

We’ve taken the approach (since she was born tbh and before she was ever diagnosed) of just providing her with a range of toys and books and letting her choose what she wants without comment. Then allowed her to explore her own interests and obsessions.

Recently (last year or so) we’ve begun a very subtle “propaganda” campaign with her whenever a relevant situation/discussion comes up to explain how “boys” and “girls” labels are just silly things that some people say because they have silly beliefs about what girls and boys should wear/do/be/play with and given her examples we know she would find funny and that play to her strong sense of logic and reason. Like “I’m a woman. If I put on one of daddy’s work shorts would I suddenly be a man?” “No” she laughs. “And if daddy put on one of my dresses would be suddenly be a mummy?” “No” she laughs again “No he’d just be daddy in a dress wouldn’t he?! It’s so silly when people say you can’t wear what you want isn’t it? It doesn’t change who you are underneath”.

We also play to her love of science and chat about things like mammals can’t change sex. But other animals can, “like worms!” she says.

I’ve also explained in an appropriate context that some people still feel really uncomfortable with how they look on the outside and have surgery to look like the other sex. And that we should be kind and let people live how they want to. But that your DNA doesn’t actually change sex because mammals can’t do that.”

It all sounds quite intense written down but it’s all done in a very very low key way when it is contextually appropriate. And I want to get these ideas set in her head so to speak so that she is in a position to be more “resistant” to trans ideology as she grows up.

This feels like the right approach to me. She is very naive for her age despite being highly intelligent and gifted, her social emotional development is years behind. I worry about how easily she could be influenced in the future.

I hope and pray that maintaining and very close and trusting relationship she will continue to come to me for support. I anticipate she will really really struggle with her body changing during puberty and dealing with periods etc. She has a lot of sensory issues around personal care already...her hair is kept in a (cute!) bob cut for example because she hates having it washed and brushed and I fear it would turn into a matted mess if longer (she won’t tie it up either).

Anyway tired and rambling now

Just placemarking to read properly later. I'm autistic and would have been swept away by this stuff as a gender-confused child who played at being a boy.

I have also seen the dismissing of mothers as ‘autism moms’ (never fathers) accompanied by the same reassuring call to join their ‘true family who understands you’.

I suspect a LOT of trans activists are autistic. There seems a lot of overlap between ‘trans identity’ and ‘autist identity’. Same approach to ‘allies’ and dismissing ‘autism moms’ for speaking on behalf of their autistic children (though ironically I suspect many are autistic themselves). The loud insistent voices dismissing others who disagree. The self-identification. The extolling of ‘lived experience’ over study and knowledge. And then also amongst the TRAs the black and white thinking, inability to consider other perspectives, the reliance on stereotypes to categorise people... Many of the loudest voices in the autism community are recent diagnosed/self ID as adults.

I remember the NAS at first expressing concern at this - then there was the full pro-trans pile on and they caved...

NonnyMouse, I just wanted to say that I'm glad you started this thread, as I have been deeply worried at reports regarding the number of autistic girls being treated at gender identity clinics.

I have also read comments from autistic women saying that had they been told, as teenagers, about being trans and that their gender identity might be a boy, they would have been eager to transition. From what I can tell, whatever confusion dissipated as they got older, and they are very happy adult women.

I did not know that gender confusion was common amongst autistic kids, and this thread is also helping me learn more about how and why it arises.

I have read that some gender identity clinics treat gender issues in isolation, by applying an affirming strategy (including through some medical interventions such as puberty blockers) without addressing other factors that may have caused the child's gender confusion, whether that be autism, childhood trauma, MH problems such as anxiety or depression, etc. I don't know how true these reports are, but I worry that a lot of autistic and same-sex attracted girls are being put on entirely the wrong path, in the name of a gender ideology that, frankly, seems to reaffirm sex-based stereotypes that women have been fighting for many decades to dismantle.

Thanks for this Nonny . Such a space would be very welcome for parents like me (mother of a autistic teen who currently identifies as a boy) as well as others generally concerned about the issue.

Are you on Twitter at all? I know it’s an absolute cesspit but if you make liberal use of the blocking facility, it’s a good way to generate conversation and awareness- possibly with a link to a blog where you could link external articles plus your well crafted essays (I always look for your posts here because they are so eloquent and I think they need a wider audience!)

I’ve been bitterly disappointed by the capture of the various organisations and charities out there to support autism, with the notable exception of @HampshireAutism but I’d hope that as awareness increases, maybe more will become more questioning?

Jelly you describe me. Was happily listening to woman's hour and the archers a age 14 I think periods were around 16 and I cried a lot for some reason. I think it was easier to be a nerd in the 90s though.

Gosh that thread has some familiar names on it who I miss.

I'm not convinced that is a deliberate tactic TBH. I think these girls are collateral damage.

13 year old girls

Interesting to ask who benefits from 13 girls not playing with dolls and drawing and instead getting hair extensions and posting half naked insta selfies.

Because I’m pretty sure it’s not girls and women.

It's rough for late developers, especially girls. Their peers are getting interested in sex, going out, having relationships, even just talking about each other differently. And these girls, perfectly intelligent, often academically able, are still playing with their dolls and drawing pretty pictures. Being geeks in their own way, about things the other girls have left behind.

Whereas once the narrative would have been "You're still young, no need to rush, everything comes in its own time", now it is "If you're not interested being a stereotypical woman in the same way was other girls are, then you're clearly not a girl". Even if your interests are stereotypically girl! And woe betide the late developing girl who is into stereotypically boy things. Poor love, she hasn't got a hope if her support is internet-based.

Thanks, 0DETTE. Have you come across any gender identity propaganda through your children, their peers or the groups they are in? Or are they old / young enough to have avoided this stuff for now?

My aspie kids are at high school and uni so sadly have encountered a lot of this stuff.

The one at uni is firmly GC and is well able to analyse the tripe that she hears socially . She’s studying biological sciences so no gender ideology there thank goodness. And she’s a very factual person, if that makes sense.

She plays a team sport and so far they’ve not had any issue with a male trying to spoil it for them. But I’m sure that’s only a matter of time.

My son who is at high school at school is slightly more gullible and sometimes takes the gender ideology as it’s sold to him. But he also likes science so is open when you ask searching questions.

He knows that people can’t change sex but like many boys( and men ) I think he’s in the “ well we should be nice and let these troubled and slightly crazy kids do what they want because it’s not harming anyone” camp.

When he means of course “ they are not harming me “.

On one hand, he has that aspie understanding of what it’s like to not fit it. But so far he’s not seen the harm this ideology does to girls, women and some GNC boys.

There’s some trans identifying kids in his school but it’s very low key. The school / local authority have chosen to deal with trans kids very quietly and I can only assume the parents are happy with this as there’s been no fuss.

The school have a lot of Muslim kids whose families would not be at all woke and would make a HUGE fuss if anything was done to compromise the privacy of their daughters.

The trans identifying kids use individual toilets and changing rooms. Interestingly the trans pupils so far are all girls. So of course there’s not that Male sense of entitlement.

My son is very gender conforming, likes science, engineering and gaming and he’s very sure he’s a boy and he fancies girls. He identifies more as a dyslexia science / engineering geek than anything else and he manages to seek out others kids like him as friends.

I think it’s much easier for straight aspie boys like him . His interest are more congruent with what is seen as appropriate by the gender Ideologists.

No one thinks he’s a girl because he wears baggy loose joggers and old t shirts out of school ( because of his sensory issues ). His minimal grooming ( it’s still an effort to get him to shower ) doesn't make him a girl.

Whereas girls who do the same are obviously boys, especially if they don’t want to wear make up, do their nails and style their hair. Especially
If they fancy other girls.

My son doesn’t care at all about being cool and fitting in - he knows that he never will. He doesn’t do social media for example.

However there’s much more social pressure on girls to fit it, to look right, post sexy selfies and get likes.

None of my sons friends talk about girls - they talk about gaming. So if he was gay it wouldn’t make much difference .

Whereas girls at that age are supposed to be focussed on getting a BF, because that’s all that matters as a girl. So a lesbian would feel much more left out and different.