Guardian interview with Juno Dawson

Stylist 2019
'6 of the biggest (and most hurtful) myths about dating trans women with Juno Dawson'
Posted byMegan Murray
(extract)
"The number of transgender hate crimes recorded by police increased 81% in 2017-2018, it was reported earlier this year. There is a general ignorance around what it means to be transgender and here at Stylist we want to do our best to support people and give voices a platform to talk about the issues they face.

That’s why we reached out to Juno Dawson, transgender woman and young adult author, to highlight some of the myths and misconceptions that trans people come up against when dating.

“Too often in the media people write about trans people, but they don’t talk to trans people so I think there are a lot of misconceptions out there,” Dawson explains.

Myth 1. Dating a trans woman changes your sexuality
“Trans women are women, trans men are men. So if you are a straight man who fancies women there’s a possibility you might fancy me and I don’t think that makes you gay.”

Myth 2. You transitioned to trick straight men into sex
“I think we’ve got to stop with this myth that a whole minority group of women are evil, liars and deceptive. It’s just transphobic. In some parts of the world men have even got off murder charges claiming that they’d been tricked into dating trans women. (continues)

www.stylist.co.uk/people/juno-dawson-dating-as-a-trans-woman-myths/291297

Embedded video with Dawson explaining the rules is disconcerting due to Dawson's age

If one thing should make them stop and think it should be children

Yet many many women on MN are even prepared to sacrifice their childs safety and well being and dignity to prove they are the ultimate kind being we should aspire to be.

Evolutionary instincts of laying down our lives to protect our children. Gone.

All for people who hate us with every cell of their body.

It all boils down to ‘female’ socialisation...

Sorry.

taught to put ‘males’ first...

narcissistic injury I love that! It’s a perfect description.

Which leads on the flow up question why are so many women and girls so desperate for the approval of someone who clearly hates them so bloody much.

Most women won’t acknowledge the fact that so many men actually hate women, because it’s too horrifying and fearful to think about. Instead they hang onto their female socialisation. Think of how many times little girls are told to ‘be nice/kind.’, taught to put makes first because little boys will just do what they want and the attitude is ‘boys will be boys’ whereas girls are expected to move over and sacrifice. They don’t want to be seem as ‘wrong or cruel’. It all boils down to demand socialisation and fear.

Especially when they reach the limits of what they are prepared to do, they will be rejected and hated as much as the rest of us. Only difference is we didn't alienate all our friends and family in the process.

Of course we will be there to pick up the pieces. We always are. Just wish we could make them see that they arent being momd and tolerant. They are being self destructive and hurting themselves

It's really sad. What does it say about their self esteem? Who wants to be constantly walking on eggshells?

Which leads on the flow up question why are so many women and girls so desperate for the approval of someone who clearly hates them so bloody much.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissisticrageeandnarcissisticcinjury

It’s about control. They can’t change reality and hate women for being something they can’t be. By forcing women to ‘accept’ their lie at face value, they have control over the same women.

Yes, exactly. And when they get told no, and can't control women, they suffer something like "narcissistic injury" which they deal with by channeling rage and hatred into their interactions with these women (ie ones like us who believe know gender identity ideology is bullshit and say so).

*Which begs the question why on earth do they want people to lie to them if they are just gonna hate them for the fact they know its lies anyway•

It’s about control. They can’t change reality and hate women for being something they can’t be. By forcing women to ‘accept’ their lie at face value, they have control over the same women.

Alice is shadowed by a mysterious character in a cat hoodie, while the Tweedle twins are social media influencers with an abusive sexual interest in transgender girls.

I found myself doing an absolutely massive involuntary eyeroll upon reading this and then right below it is a comment about the trans character getting raped by two teenage girls, and... ow! my eyes!

I suspect even when taken in by a group of female friends and praised to heaven and "accepted", they know deep down the truth and will always resent women for that

Which begs the question why on earth do they want people to lie to them if they are just gonna hate them for the fact they know its lies anyway

Of course Juno doesn't like women. We represent something intrinsic that, try as they might, they will never be. I suspect even when taken in by a group of female friends and praised to heaven and "accepted", they know deep down the truth and will always resent women for that.

It reminds me of an ex who always had to prove he could do something better than me, and if he couldn't, then it was derided as useless or pointless anyway.

Interesting crossover here with the Karen thread.

What’s really boiling my shit is that vulnerable people will be told to shield until Xmas so that these Karens can conga in the street.

twitter.com/junodawson/status/1259108409061912577?s=19

The video shows men, women and children.

'These Karens'? An insult for middle aged women is now an insult for anyone?

Is Juno inadvertently telling us Juno doesn't like women very much?

Sylvari*

I hear you. Think I might be around the same age. In primary, I felt like my skinny friend got more attention than me & she was more popular. I developed anorexia around the transition to secondary school. I wanted to be skinnier because skinny = attractive to me back then. All the music videos had very slim women in them, like Fergie or Nicole Scherzinger.

Then at secondary I only had A-cups (still do) & cut my hair cut pixie-style like P!nk who was one of my faves.

Got called ugly, a dyke, a boy, people would say as I walked by "is that a boy or a girl?". It made me feel so unfemale and I think I reacted to that by overly sexualising myself and wearing bum-shorts and loads of makeup etc, craving the body of the "male ideal" because then people wouldn't be nasty to and I could feel better. I was convinced that if I could just look "sexy" my life would be fine. It all came from low self-esteem in the first instance.

I used to say I'd swap my boobs for my friend's who had F-cups, and she said she's take mine anyday. On the other side, she was dealing with the over sexualisation of her breasts. I'll bet if I got what I "wanted" back then, I'd soon take it back...

It's so sad what this all does to teen girls.

the woman they want to be is constructed solely through the male gaze

This, a thousand times over. It's so thuddingly illogical.

But no man can ever understand what a teenage girls goes through. Because they are male.

Exactly. And in this case, Dawsons trans status, is the USP. They actually market the idea that they have had both experiences. Talk about cake and eat it!

As if the definition of a teenage girl is a man who feels uncomfortable and wants to be a woman. The fact that the woman they want to be is constructed solely through the male gaze, is what makes this so damaging.

sylv

I often wonder whether men were just better at hiding what they did back then or whether now as its seemingly so much more acceptable to flaunt your kink in public that they dont even need to hide it any more.

Alot of the way kids dressed back then were just as a right of passage. You channelled your inner grunge and lived in combats playing marilyn Manson and skunk anansie

Or you rolled your skirt up and walked around orange fron the cheap foundation in the boots bargain bin.

Now the influencers are no longer talented musicians but people who post contouring videos on you tube and straighten their hair to within an inch of its life.

Oh of course ducksback. I agree with that! I don't agree that all teens experience or react to the male gaze in the same way, that was all. As you were. I didn't mean anything by it, I think it's interesting some teens seem to go one way and others another, it makes you wonder why, what's the difference between the two? Probably a bit of a derail. :)

But no man can ever understand what a teenage girls goes through. Because they are male.

sylv

We were all " newbies" once. God I know I was. Yes theres many incredibly intelligent women here but also average ones like me it's not an exclusive club with high qualification entry process. Please, post,

I'm daft as a brush Sylvari but it doesn't stop me from contributing to the threads here.

I will say I don't understand the "they have no idea what's it like" because while I agree with that, I don't think all girls tie jumpers around their waist to hide their body etc. When I was a teen 2007+ showing off your body was more the thing (thank you music videos I guess!?) and if you wore baggy clothes you were labelled a "grunger". I think perhaps there's always been girls more comfortable with their bodies than others. Some feel bad they are developing and want to hide it, some embrace it as being "more womanly/older/mature/attractive". Some are overly sexualised through the media they consume. I don't think there's a blanket way that teens deal with the male gaze.

I had a face full of metal and green hair and bovver boots and adult men would come up to me and say ‘why has a pretty girl like you gone and done that to yourself?’ And I would say ‘so old men like you don’t fancy me’.

I recognise so much of that attitude in many of the detransitioned young women I’ve met. It’s a fear and self preservation in a cloak of defiance.