Guardian interview with Juno Dawson

Dawson's living out the fantasy, not just writing it. I saw JD at a book event last year, plugging that year's wet-dream fantasy about a young girl who was discovered as a model. I had no idea who JD was at that time. It was a panel event and various sensibly-dressed women appeared on the raised stage, all in longer skirts or trousers. And then there was JD in a micro-mini, giving us all a clear view of JD's underwear. Lots of leg crossing and uncrossing.

(And an additional target audience of randy blokes who weren't even pretending to care about the music.)

"Perky little boobs" is such a fundamentally male way to view women's bodies

Its a male way of viewing girls & young women.

Re the Spice Girls reference, I'm of the right generation but only know one Spice Girls song, and that one only because it became sort of a meme. Was the intended audience not always small children, with a secondary audience of gay men? No teenage girl with any desire to be seen as cool by her peers would have been caught dead listening to them, and there was so much actually cool female lead stuff around at the time too.

Again, "they were all mad about the SpiceGirls" is a from the outside looking in view of what being a girl or woman is like.

It's a description based on looking at someone else's body from the outside and has absolutely nothing to do with the experience of living in the body being looked at. Which probably tells us multiple interesting things about any males using phrasing like that.

I suppose the belligerence comes from the realisation that their concept of womanhood really is male fantasy, and the first part of that must "sting" and it just reinforces reality

"Perky little boobs" is such a fundamentally male way to view women's bodies, and so many males are unaware that that isn't how we see ourselves, and they get so belligerent when we point that out. Really kills the buzz, I guess.

I wasn't abused but I was having sex by 14. It was definitely about worth tied into attraction from males.

I don't think there's a single paragraph that isn't vomit inducing. Dear god. No matter how often you're exposed to the reality that this is what some transwomen think being a woman is it never loses its ability to nauseate.

The one girl I know who was overtly sexual at 16, was being raped by her father all through her teens. I think many girls who are highly sexual early, have experienced either abuse or have been given the impression that their worth lies in how attractive they are to males.

Nimawyn i was 16, as was my mother. My sibling and I both hit puberty late and had our growth spurt at 16/17. I stopped growing at 19. My friends dd was 9, so there is a big variation. I have read that 15/16/17 used to be far more common, but we now have a higher calorie diet, so girls on average hit puberty earlier than a century ago.

I think perhaps there's always been girls more comfortable with their bodies than others. Some feel bad they are developing and want to hide it, some embrace it as being "more womanly/older/mature/attractive". Some are overly sexualised through the media they consume. I don't think there's a blanket way that teens deal with the male gaze.

Yes, I had a friend in middle school who was extremely curvy, and she took the over-sexualised approach at quite a young age. I suspect part of that was related to some things going on at her home. It didn't turn out that well for her. I went for the grunge look which was very popular at the time. But there were also girls who generally felt more positive about becoming more adult in appearance.

I am not totally comfortable with this idea that men can't ever write authentic women characters. People who are empathetic and intelligent and and observant and good writers often can write someone who has had a set of experiences quite different from their own and it's very recognisable. The switch to the idea that you can only write about someone like yourself hasn't produced much great literature IMO.

The problem isn't that he's a man writing about teen girls, it's that he's shit writing about teen girls.

It has seemed important to some males who identify as trans to make public assurances that their male partners are not gay.

It seems to matter a great deal to the male partners to deny that their relationship is homosexual.

I don't believe anyone transitions solely to "trick straight men into sex". Because it's not a option open to any but a tiny percentage of MTFs. So that's a straw person of indeterminate gender

Tricking aside , whatever did happen with SWs desire to remove the sex by deception clause?

I don't believe anyone transitions solely to "trick straight men into sex". Because it's not a option open to any but a tiny percentage of MTFs. So that's a straw person of indeterminate gender.

I think any 38 year old writing in that way about teenage girls is creepy as fuck, but especially one who 'was male' until their 30s (hope I have worded that appropriately!)

But apparently it's OK because... Trans innit.

Myth 2. You transitioned to trick straight men into sex
“I think we’ve got to stop with this myth that a whole minority group of women are evil, liars and deceptive.

I know plenty of people have drunk the Kool-Aid, but surely there is no one who can read that sentence and not see the cringing manipulation.

Also, what on earth does Dawson mean by straight man? It's very unclear. Is that a person with a vagina who is attracted to someone else with a vagina? I can't remember if, for instance, Freddie McConnell is a gay or straight man, now.

Who is Dawson referring to?

I also started later, was nearly 16.

Demelza!? Sorry, think I had a username in my head from another thread.

The smugness gets me from the video too.

@R0wantrees Oh cripes, that video, those facial expressions, the smugness. The embellishments too. 😕

Me neither Demelza.

I wonder if it will keep getting younger and how young it could possibly go? Does starting your periods earlier mean you will have a menopause earlier as you start releasing your set number of eggs earlier? Not a science person. Thinking about it, even when I was at school there were those who had started by Year 6, and I guess it could be younger than that even now.

I think the average age is alot younger now.

Theories being the rise in childhood obesity . Some think its hormones etc in food.

I was 16.

At 17 I had only recently started my periods, I was still growing, and I was not at all ready for an adult sexual relationship

Wow! That's very late (not meaning offense) . Is that average now? For me it was 11 for my first period, that's a big variation.

Slightly off topic, but any suggestions for non-pornified, wonderful novels for dds 15, and just 13 ? Especially for the 15 year old ?

My experience of being a teenage girl, like several pps, was one of hating the constant sexual harassment and pressure, and being afraid of the adult men who felt free to flirt with me, or comment on my body in the street. At 17 I had only recently started my periods, I was still growing, and I was not at all ready for an adult sexual relationship.
I agree it is deeply creepy that a middle aged male is writing about teenage girls in this way. It really makes me feel slightly sick. There are a number of trans males who fetishise teenage girlhood. “Girls like us” etc.
As a mother of actual teenage girls, I find it repellent and disturbing.