Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Does Scotland not have sex as a protected characteristic?!

37 replies

stumbledin · 08/05/2020 23:39

Justice Secretary Humza Yousaf is quoted as saying (re hate crime):

" ... The Bill builds on existing laws. It retains existing characteristics in relation to the aggravation of offences by prejudice and adds age as a new characteristic.

" ...The Bill provides for new ‘stirring up’ of hatred offences that would apply to all characteristics listed in the Bill: age, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity and variations in sex characteristics. ... "

SEX CHARACTERISTICS - surely this isn't right. Or is it just plain female erasure. ie the old trans narrative of there being no sex so sexism cant exist????

And later on says:

" ... Lord Bracadale recommended that gender should be added to hate crime law. Leading women’s organisations were opposed to this. They proposed a standalone offence on misogynistic harassment be developed, which the Scottish Government is committed to in principle.

A working group will consider how Scotland’s criminal justice system deals with misogyny, including consideration of a specific offence on misogynistic harassment and whether sex should be added to the characteristics in hate crime law. ... "

I am totally bemused.

How did things get so bad in Scotland that they are having to discuss sex being added as a characteristic??

I was aware from the work of ForWomen.Scot of just how strong the trans infilitration of goverment and "civil society" but never ever dreamed that sex was not accepted as a protected characteristic.

Beyond words.

OP posts:
Michelleoftheresistance · 09/05/2020 10:36

What do these laws add. Specifically. Particularly in terms of powers and suppression - that is not already covered by existing laws?

What is the purpose and reason for those specific additions?

I'll wait for that bloody awful phrase 'sending a message' which is so often used to justify utter, unprofessional bullshit that has no place in legislation.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 09/05/2020 10:30

It's been clear for a while that that org has been thoroughly captured.

Kantastic · 09/05/2020 10:27

Our Gov funded "feminist" organisation successfully argued for sex to be left out of the Bill, but that's another story.

What the FUCK. Was their reasoning for this somehow trans related? Such a useful Trojan horse for woman-haters.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 09/05/2020 10:11

Is it now a hate crime in Scotland to say X has a tiny penis?

I hope it's not retroactive or I'm in trouble! On hate crime laws in general though the whole concept needs a rethink, given how obvious it now is that it's being misused and that the police really aren't up to the task of navigating any nuances.

NonnyMouse1337 · 09/05/2020 09:55

Linking discussion threads.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3893216-Scottish-Governments-Hate-Crime-bill

boatyardblues · 09/05/2020 09:54

I really want to know what variations in sex characteristics means

Me too, me too.

NonnyMouse1337 · 09/05/2020 09:32

This is the next big issue we need to examine in Scotland.
If the 'protected characteristics' listed in Hate Crime bills are not based on the Equality Act, who decides what these protected groups are? Lobby groups with the most money and loudest voices and influence?

How exactly is 'transgender identity and variations in sex characteristics' defined?
Curious how sex is always left out of these things...

And yes, I want to examine the concept of hate crime laws in more detail. Does it actually help vulnerable groups and foster understanding between different people in the long-term? What are the pros and cons of these laws and why are they favoured over pre-existing laws?

I've heard from a source that the main goal for bringing this Bill together is to tackle sectarianism in Scotland, but I've not seen any publicised references to this .. and I'm not sure how one tackles sectarianism with such a wide reaching and blunt piece of legislation. How is one deemed to be 'stirring up hatred'? Laws should not be trying to police subjective interpretations or straying into the territory of thought crimes. Are we still maintaining a database of 'non-crime crimes' as exposed by Fair Cop?
People get offended and upset about lots of things. Doesn't necessarily mean whatever it is that hurt and upset them is a crime.

APocketFullOfButtons · 09/05/2020 09:26

I have serious reservations about any “hate crime” laws. They are a threat to free speech, and closely resemble the old blasphemy laws.
I could foresee feminists being prosecuted for simply expressing gender critical views or refusing to accept that men can change sex.
Existing laws can already cover so called hate crimes, under things like incitement to violence.

Agreed, particularly last sentence.

APocketFullOfButtons · 09/05/2020 09:25

I really want to know what variations in sex characteristics means, and why they are relevant. It’s very ambiguous.

APocketFullOfButtons · 09/05/2020 09:23

Variations in sex characteristics?
What does this mean? Differences in penis sizes? Breasts? How are these relevant to hate crime law? Is it now a hate crime in Scotland to say X has a tiny penis?

Babdoc · 09/05/2020 08:44

I have serious reservations about any “hate crime” laws. They are a threat to free speech, and closely resemble the old blasphemy laws.
I could foresee feminists being prosecuted for simply expressing gender critical views or refusing to accept that men can change sex.
Existing laws can already cover so called hate crimes, under things like incitement to violence.

BetsyM00 · 09/05/2020 00:20

Hate crime laws are different from the Equality Act 2010, which is UK wide and includes the protected characteristic of sex.

Existing hate crime laws cover 5 characteristics - disability, race, religion, sexual orientation and transgender identity. The new bill in Scotland is trying to consolidate the three separate hate laws that currently cover these characteristics. It also introduces some disturbing new offences relating to stirring up hate, as well as including the option to include sex as a characteristic at a later date.

Our Gov funded "feminist" organisation successfully argued for sex to be left out of the Bill, but that's another story.