Surrogacy on the NHS

Fanny - I saw that too (on twitter) and the report of all the babies (99% girls) murdered and/or dumped in a rubbish dump in Pakistan.

What a fucking world.

They define themselves as kind people goihggng on a journey to make s huge difference

I know an American woman who has surrogated twice. She did it because she has a disabled child to care for and needed the extra money. I don't know how she feels about her choice. But I think it's disgusting that she has to sell her body to provide for her existing children.
Would it be kind and giving if she has gone on the game, or a sad reflection of a society that is letting down the most in need.

These are not women who struggle to have babies

This says a lot about the poster. They can have babies I can't, so give me one of yours.

I get pregnant easily. In fact I'm unintentionally pregnant right now. It doesn't mean infertile woman have a right to my body. And even for someone fertile, pregnancy is not easy. It's 9 months of sacrifice. Its impacting to your fitness your health. I've had 2 labours already but I'm still nervous about what could happen in the third. No pregnancy is without risk and anyone who thinks it is is blinded by want (want for baby, want for money) or very nieve.

More news from the Ukraine baby factory.

4w.pub/excess-babies/

TBH Ov9 you would have that opinion as you have a surrogate child, a child through surrogacy.

If you had an egg donated to make your son do you know that the egg donor is ok, both mentally and physically? Does she remain fertile? Does she have reproductive cancer?

If you had a surrogate mother who you paid to grow and give birth to your child, is she ok, are you still in touch? Family member, friend or stranger? Uk or abroad? Is she ok, did she suffer any incontinence, birth injures or mental problems (I'm not sure she would tell you so that's maybe an unfair question, she might want to uphold the image of being generous and completely unaffected but might be in private counselling, if she can afford it).

Your boy might be a happy little person on a day to day basis but if he came from donor sperm or a donor egg he might one day fall in love with a half sibling and not be able to have a family because of the close relationship. However, he might be in a same-sex relationship and be all set up to have a family using a woman's body as he came into the world that way so has learnt that women, or some women, are there to provide a service.

Have you told him or will you tell him about the circumstances his birth?

You may think all the above is too personal, but your position on this is personal as you have personally benefited from surrogacy. You are entitled to your own opinion but your experience and the experience of the women involved in the birth of your child are not necessarily the experience of all women involved in surrogacy.

By comparison we do not legislate for the 'happy hookers', we legislate against sexual trafficking/slavery.

Being able to sell your reproductive system or your ability to procreate is not for you, or I as individuals, to decide but it is a fact that most countries have banned either commercial surrogacy or outlawed surrogacy entirely.

Pro surrogacy people, including the Law Commission, say the Uk law is outdated because people should be allowed to buy babies and why can't women use their wombs to make money. Personally I think the current and proposed laws in the Uk are way behind other countries. They have it right and we have it wrong.

“She is physically okay, but mentally a mess,”

Why do you think that may be @0v9c99f9g9d939d9f9g9h8h ?

These are not women who struggle to have babies

And yet the woman who is a mess mentally has previously given birth prematurely.

Personally, in the unlikely event I was looking for a kind woman to do me a huge favour I would rule out someone who had previously given birth prematurely. I wonder what the NICU facilities are like in the Ukraine and how much they cost.

Did you even read the article @0v9c99f9g9d939d9f9g9h8h ?

Every year, thousands of prospective parents from all over the world travel to countries such as Ukraine, Canada, Georgia and the US to carry out surrogacies.

Why do you think thousands of women, mostly in poor countries, are signing up to carry babies for international baby buyers from across the world?

You think they are all "kind people goihggng on a journey to make s huge difference."?

Why are there no kind rich women cheerfully going on a journey to make a huge difference? They could offer their services for free. It would make a huge difference for people who can't otherwise afford to embark on surrogacy.

Your ignorance is embarrassing.

They define themselves as kind people goihggng on a journey to make s huge difference

How the fuck would you know? You don't, you cannot even imagine what life is like for some of those women.

No it allows them to what they are-a woman, not a mother. These are not women who struggle to have babies and they certainly don't want a baby who isn't related to their family. They define themselves as kind people goihggng on a journey to make s huge difference. And of

Removing the word ‘mother’ removes the personhood and the humanity and the agency of these women. It’s not accidental. It makes it easier to ignore their normal, human needs.

You're right tiktok and I noticed today that UK government guidelines ref 'surrogates'. 'Mother' has been entirely removed.

Thanks for the link to the Wired story. Interesting use of language - it's the surrogacy 'industry' and as per, the women who are pregnant and due to give birth are 'surrogates' and not surrogate 'mothers'.

Is there any word of concern for the mothers in that story at all? Or concern for the babies? Oh yes...apart from the fact that Sophie's 'surrogate' is mentally 'a mess'. Well, colour me surprised.

This 'industry' creates inevitable problems, which demand massive amounts of money and heartbreak, and which risk leaving deprived women traumatised, in poor health and discarded.

It's indefensible.

I don't have any sympathy either.

If you pursue this sort of an arrangement the travel and distance is always going to be an issue, flight delays and cancellations happen in normal times, and especially when there's a global pandemic your entitlement doesn't take priority over the health and safety of anyone, even with a private plane!

They left their country to do something that is illegal in their own country. I'm not surprised that the french govt aren't jumping through hoops to do their bidding.

Vile people and that poor surrogate mother is going to need a lot of help, I hope she doesn't expect any from them, she's fulfilled her contract they aren't going to stump up for private counselling post-birth.

Thanks @OhHolyJesus
Not an article that is good for my blood pressure.

“Nobody is legally responsible for that child until we’re both in Ukraine,” says Sophie. “The only thing we can do is put pressure on the French government. They are being absolutely inhumane and they should be ashamed of what they’re doing.” Sophie is also concerned for the wellbeing of her surrogate. “She is physically okay, but mentally a mess,” she says.

THEY USED A SURROGATE MOTHER WHO HAD PREVIOUSLY GIVEN BIRTH PREMATURELY SO THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT NOT GETTING THERE IN TIME. oh and they're a bit worried about her mental well being. But it's the French government that is inhumane.

Honestly this people trafficking/baby trafficking on a global scale.

And the gay couple from Italy should be worried. I have read an article earlier today that pointed out how Italy is not helpful to couples returning from abroad with a baby as surrogacy is illegal in Italy and one baby was taken from the commissioning parents and put up for adoption.

Just posting this here.

There's nothing money can't buy.

www.wired.co.uk/article/coronavirus-lockdown-surrogacy-industry

Indeed there are.

Yes, I do.

There really are some people who really don't see women as human beings.

Or will find them.

No problem at all. I imagine you found the documents as concerning and chilling as I did.

Oh and thanks for the link Eresh x

Me too California - 'novel' transplants indeed. No one would want my knackered out womb but still, it was my child's home and you're not having it.

Part of the reason I took myself of automatic organ donation

drive.google.com/open?id=1PQuMJAkGc7jex5Kgr9EEvlIqkSmsbBGg

Oooh have you got the link to the google doc link eresh? I'd like a browse through those.

If Ben here says he doesn't think there is a demand for it why is he the lead research on the feasibility study? His entire position and employment contract is disingenuous.

"The answer is an easy no. We will never even consider performing womb transplants in men. This is not possible, legal nor do I think there is a demand for it"

Answering her knowing full well she included MTFs in "men". And saying that it's not "possible". Their linked paperwork covers all the criteria he mentions; legality, medical possibility and demand.

Found the screenshot of the response to
Posie Parker (it's in the thread, her FB no longer exists)