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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Surrogacy on the NHS

257 replies

Viewfromtheisland · 04/05/2020 11:48

Didn’t know it was allowed in Scotland but I’ve been educated by the Daily Record today....

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Roro1000 · 30/01/2021 01:34

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PrincessForADay · 12/07/2020 02:45

The more I read up on surrogacy the more I am shocked it's legal & unregulated

viques · 11/07/2020 18:54

@Cattenberg

Ov9, I understand why you’re sticking up for your friends. And yes, sometimes surrogate mothers are content with their role and feel fine about handing the baby over.

But some do change their minds during the process, because they may have bonded with the baby, or grown to dislike the commissioning parents, or both. If you read the article by Jennifer Lahl I linked earlier in the thread, you might understand why some people, including me, are horrified by the proposal to relax surrogacy laws in the UK.

Here is a UK case of a surrogate mother changing her mind. It was supposedly “altruistic surrogacy”, but in reality it was anything but.

The surrogate mother (known as V in the judgement) had learning difficulties and limited financial means. She didn’t understand the arrangement she had agreed to, and had doubts early on in the process, but was afraid to tell the commissioning parents.

www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed161502

The applicants, A and B, were the commissioning parents. They already had twins, who had been born to a surrogate mother, V. Russell J was extremely critical of the couple's behaviour towards V. She described them as being "dismissive" of V, "wholly uninterested in her" and as seeing "her primarily as a service provider to whom they had paid £12,500" [35]. A, said Russell J, had "no understanding…that he was dealing with another human being whose own expectations and feelings needed to be taken into account".

I have just read through the whole of the judgement and my blood ran cold. The judgement actually concerns a second surrogate (X) the parents "commissioned" who they a) didn't tell about the breakdown of the relationship with their first surrogate (V) , by whom they had had twins, then b) bullied and lied to, both directly and by omission, despite the fact that (X) has significant learning difficulties.

If nothing else the judgement indicates that the surrogacy arrangements currently in place are totally inadequate, there seems to be no requirement for legal mediation, counselling, a standard form of agreement or regulation about how surrogates and CPS are introduced and helped to navigate the complex legal and emotional complications. It seems so remiss to allow surrogacy to be such a hit and miss affair, especially when we know how many adoptions still fail despite the care that is taken to deal with adoption legalities and matching.

Fortunately in this case a sympathetic and responsible judge looked beyond the initial application by the CP and investigated the whole sorry tale. Not helped by the fact that for a long time X had no legal representation and was not given recourse to public funds.

FannyCann · 11/07/2020 17:41

Indeed. The NHS paying for a woman to carry a baby for someone else.

More court cases waiting to happen.

ChristmasKitties · 11/07/2020 17:26

This is grim. Being a parent is not a right.

FannyCann · 11/07/2020 17:25

I can't find a way to link the report except this as a pdf. You need to copy and paste it into your browser to get the report.

surrogacyuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Surrogacy-in-the-UK-2nd-Report-20181230.pdf

FannyCann · 11/07/2020 17:22

Just updating here as I have only discovered this in the past couple of days, thanks to dogged FOI investigating by another poster. 🦴

The Law Commission produced a strategy document in which it cited Surrogacy UK as a "key influencer".

Surrogacy UK had Kent University produce a research document for them "Further evidence for reform" (December 2018).
This called for "public funding should be made available for surrogacy related fertility treatment in the UK and to pay UK surrogate expenses".

As we can see, this is already happening in Scotland and Wales.

Surrogacy on the NHS
Surrogacy on the NHS
Surrogacy on the NHS
OhHolyJesus · 23/06/2020 23:17

Two blokes and twins in Thailand, one is the father the other his brother in law and at the end the wife explains how they didn't exploit anyone. You tell yourself that.

It's old but a good example of how legal systems in other countries are a real pain the the arse when to buy babies.

OhHolyJesus · 23/06/2020 23:15

By the way it got to 125 in Ukraine but now babies are being collected, but not necessarily let out of the country.

I saw one bloke complaining about how he's stuck in Russia whilst his wife is at home/work. He had to be the one collecting their order as he's the one with the biological connection/sperm. Tough gig.

JoanOfQuarks · 23/06/2020 23:14

Thanks Fanny. It’s unbelievably depressing. How dare they suggest children’s safeguarding shouldn’t apply to the surrogacy industry.
In Renate Klein’s book, Surrogacy a human rights violation, she had a terrifying example of two paedophile men who had used surrogacy to give them access to a baby victim.
These things can and do happen.

OhHolyJesus · 23/06/2020 23:12

Reversal of the presumption of motherhood

There was a guy called Liam who got a thank you at the end of the consultation document somewhere, I checked him out, he worked on the Kent Uni research and had a survey monkey link or something that was was about motherhood and what it means or something along those lines. I missed the deadline to submit my response but again we're back to language and meaning do words aren't we?

The word woman is taken.
The word mother is taken.

They must think we're stupid.

FannyCann · 23/06/2020 21:27

"Reversal of the presumption of motherhood"

Says it all really.

FannyCann · 23/06/2020 21:25

Just found this research from the university of Kent for Surrogacy UK, "Further evidence for reform"

Among their demands: "Public funding should be made available for surrogacy related fertility treatment...and to pay UK surrogate expenses"

Oh, and commissioning parents should not be evaluated for their suitability of becoming parents....

surrogacyuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Surrogacy-in-the-UK-2nd-Report-20181230.pdf

Surrogacy on the NHS
Surrogacy on the NHS
TheTiaraManager · 16/05/2020 18:40

Following

FannyCann · 15/05/2020 17:22

And in the UK

Natasha Caltabiano died on New Years Eve 2005.

Natasha, ages 29, was a mother of two young children.

www.bionews.org.uk/page_89547

Natasha died for a couple who already had FIVE children between them.

Then they argued about money owed and wouldn't pay the rest of her expenses to her mother for the funeral.

OhHolyJesus · 15/05/2020 11:57

If 500 then it would have been useful for the article to provide other examples with the numbers in their baby rooms.

Then there's Georgia and Cambodia, Greece etc. Travel bans are being enforced all over as well as quarantine. I'm not sure why anyone thinks they are more entitled to special rules because they are buying a baby. As a virus that kills and it being a newborn and all I would hope the governments involved take this very seriously and wake up to what is happening.

OhHolyJesus · 15/05/2020 11:53

It implies Ukraine alone for the 500 but in the video it clearly states the one hotel has 46 in the baby room. Imagine the nappies and formula that all has to be delivered and one paediatrician has to check each one every day and live on site with the "professional babysitters" so they can't see their families either.

The BioTexCom Apple Mac bearer at the beginning and end makes me sick. One man at the top and all these women doing the work for these abandoned babies.

No happy music will drown out the screaming of those babies.

FannyCann · 15/05/2020 11:33

I'm on my phone losing battery so I can't open the link OhHoly but maybe 500 around the world? Or that might be too small a number given earlier posts about USA and I've seen similar articles re Canada and then there's cheaper destinations like Nigeria...?

ABucketOfShells · 15/05/2020 11:30

A baby doesn’t grow inside sensing a connection to egg in which it was inseminated, but it’s mother’s body, their heart beat.

ABucketOfShells · 15/05/2020 11:26

I’m against surrogacy, it doesn’t matter who it’s for. It’s heart-breaking, exploitative and unnatural. If you grow a baby inside your womb, I am of the opinion you are the real mother, regardless of what artificial dystopian procedure was done to change the eggs.
Absolutely should not be funded on the NHS, I also didn’t know it was legal in a Scotland, it should be illegal everywhere.

OhHolyJesus · 15/05/2020 11:13

500 babies?

God I hope it's not that many, I can't imagine it's as much as that, maybe a zero was added by mistake? Really really hoping it's a mistake. The staff could t possibly cope.

I couldn't watch more than a few seconds of the video so I send with a warning.

https://rmx.news/article/commentary/video-over-500-surrogate-babies-left-in-limbo-in-ukraine-after-parents-barred-from-entering-country-over-coronavirus?fbclid=IwAR2zauKGy1xwo47w8in7LTzoKSih7MM_0Cbu4pte5qdNZ1ymHy4KfhcFOps

OhHolyJesus · 15/05/2020 09:22

Reuters has it at 51 Maybe bit of a jump from 35, maybe some are twins and the BBC has taken it as 'births'?

I'm honestly pleased that the BBC and the Guardian have decided to cover it. I thought this bit from Reuters was good, maybe there will be law reform in the Ukraine too?

"Lyudmyla Denisova, the human rights ombudsman for the Ukrainian parliament, said the video showed the country had a “massive and systemic” surrogacy industry where babies were advertised as a “high quality product”. She suggested looking into changing the law to allow only Ukrainian parents to use such services.
“We were prepared for this negative reaction,” the clinic’s founder Albert Tochilovsky said. “Given that parents need to be quarantined for 14 days, I want to speed up the process.”
Denisova ordered checks on the clinic but said she found that BioTexCom was following all procedures correctly. Surrogacy is legal in Ukraine."

Albert want's to speed up the process....? Because he is a virologist and understands Covid better than your average virus expert? I think he fears legal action, I hope he has a 'force majeur' clause in their BioTexCom contracts. (I'd rebrand that name if I was him Lord, not very family friendly is it...like Brilliant Beginnings or Happy Beginnings? Oh no, those names are taken....

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-ukraine-babies/ukrainian-surrogate-babies-bound-for-u-s-europe-stranded-by-virus-lockdown-idUSKBN22Q380?fbclid=IwAR2Z2d5wuGVg0tNgroKZrv8qsoa7ShME_IgOQtLgBtp969pQx9Yz9Fe4XrE

Thinkingabout1t · 15/05/2020 09:20

The NHS is a state funded medical service. Providing facilities for people who have bought a child is not part of their remit.
This.

FannyCann · 15/05/2020 08:20

Yes, OhHoly maternal death is a dirty secret they try to cover up. No one knows the true number, most contracts include a NDA.

"I have to speak about this anonymously because I learned about Crystal’s death and the circumstances surrounding it at one of the CPS group therapy meetings, and from emails sent around by CPS to all of us surrogates used by them. CPS made it very clear that we were not allowed to publicly speak about Crystal’s death,and so I fear that CSPone of the biggest surrogate agencies in California will sue me if I speak publicly and identify myself.”

OhHolyJesus · 15/05/2020 07:43

Hi Maybe yes I posted a link earlier which said it was 46 newborns in the Ukraine.

Whilst the BBC might be more accurate it's pretty shocking either way.

I'm so sorry for all the families of those women Fanny I had known about some of them before but not all. No wonder the surrogacy industry tries to cover it up. Doesn't sit too well with the image they want to project.