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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stewart Lee (again) takes on the Wokefinder General

61 replies

SerendipityJane · 04/05/2020 10:55

since SL was slated here recently, here's an excuse to have another go Smile

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/03/we-must-honour-those-brave-souls-working-with-ricky-gervais

Every Tuesday at 8.45pm, I stand in the silent lane alone and bang my Le Creusets in support of a group of brave people who must never be forgotten; unsung martyrs who, through no fault of their own, have found themselves working at the very heart of a terrible unfolding disaster of an unprecedented scale – the cast of the second series of Ricky Gervais’s After Life (Netflix).

Denied proper support or protection, in the form of three-dimensional characters or plausible dialogue, these simple actors, almost two of them from an ethnic minority, are forced instead to mouth lines apparently designed merely to cement public perceptions of their author’s own genius, like old beggars under sacks. And yet they solider on, the real heroes of our times, discharging their duties with professionalism and dignity, lions led by a dong. At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, we shall remember them.

I’m joking of course! But should anything be off-limits for humour, especially during the horror of The Corona Virus (Wuhan Bat and Pangolin Snack ™ ® Co Ltd)? It’s a question answered by Ricky Gervais himself in a syndicated Press Association interview provided free to the Aberdeen Evening Express, and newspapers nationwide, in March. The “Wokefinder General” (Sarah Vine, Daily Mail) concluded: “There is no better tool to get you through bad things… than with a sense of humour.” I am sure this was a sentiment shared privately by his cast every day during the filming of After Life (Netflix).

(contd)

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CatandtheFiddle · 18/05/2020 07:35

If SL thinks transwomen are women, then I'd like him to define the word woman, please

And also, I'd be interested in his honest answer to "Would you have a transwoman as a romantic & sexual partner?"

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2020 00:31

And intellectually too by the sounds of it. If SL thinks transwomen are women, then I'd like him to define the word woman, please. Without recourse to circular definitions and/ or sexist stereotypes.

He would never, ever entertain the thought of doing that. I'd guess he has never considered it that deeply. If he did, he's self aware enough that the cognitive dissonance would be unbearable I think.

ScreamingBeans · 18/05/2020 00:13

10 years ago, I'd have said that I didn't like Gervais humour, that Lee was more my cup of tea. Yet here I am, bad taste in my mouth watching Lee because it does seem so bitter, despite the thought that's gone into the words coming out his mouth, but Gervais seems more thoughtful despite the seemingly awful things he says.

Yep.

I used to love Stewart Lee and I'd still go to one of his stand up shows.

But what strikes me about him is that he's still doing the same stuff he was doing 20 years ago.

While Gervaise has moved on.

Creatively, RG is winning.

And intellectually too by the sounds of it. If SL thinks transwomen are women, then I'd like him to define the word woman, please. Without recourse to circular definitions and/ or sexist stereotypes.

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 17/05/2020 22:44

I thought Afterlife was great and it's apparently one of the most popular Netflix series.

refriedbeanstalk · 17/05/2020 22:38

Ha, same, Cat. Although I spent all the 11 other episodes looking forward to the GC bit in 2x6. Whoops.

RG isn't fashionable and he's sometimes a bit of a prick but he does have his moments. Glad to have such a big name on our side.

Also disappointed in SLee. Surely Bridget Christie has peaked by now and could educate him?

CatandtheFiddle · 17/05/2020 18:11

I really enjoyed After Life after the recommendations here.

Helmetbymidnight · 17/05/2020 17:43

The point he was making - a valid one - is presumably that privileged posh people are sending W/c back to work while staying insulated and safe themselves. Sadly, all that is lost in all the words and yep, picking on someone because of their made-up surname - yes, it was made-up most likely because of fear and anti-semitism - dilutes the message terribly.

Pertella · 17/05/2020 17:38

Taking the piss out of someones name is a bit primary school playground. No doubt us fickies dont understand the nuance or some such bullshit.

Helmetbymidnight · 17/05/2020 17:37

Oof, I'm a stewart Lee fan (see previous!) but that article is shit.

SunsetBeetch · 17/05/2020 17:26

Oh dear, Stewart...

"Yes “Tugendhat” is “just different words put together”, ⁦*@guardian*⁩, because like many other Austrian Jews the family probably had to make up a non-Christian one because Jews weren’t allowed Christian names. Comedy based on antisemitism isn’t funny t.co/4PKZULbfQI "

"The opening of this article is disgraceful. Yeah, names like Tugendhat aren’t “based on ancient trades” and so presumably aren’t proper as they’re just made up. This is classic antisemitism -Jews don’t belong, aren’t from here. @KathViner you ok with this?"

twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1261985498035376128?s=19

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 05/05/2020 10:06

The scene in Episode 6 of Afterlife S2 where the burly plumber in a dress and pigtails is having a midlife crisis shows that RG completely understands the absurdities and privilege of men claiming to be women.

Yes.. the conversation as they were walking away was a pretty complete, but carefully put summation of the topic I thought.

HandsOffMyRights · 04/05/2020 22:54

God SL is a prick.

The scene in Episode 6 of Afterlife S2 where the burly plumber in a dress and pigtails is having a midlife crisis shows that RG completely understands the absurdities and privilege of men claiming to be women.

Whereas SL just reinforces the sexism and misogyny. He's just narked because RG gets it.

SL's not a genius and no, the jokes aren't too nuanced/subversive/surreal for plebs like me to understand.

As per the linked thread, his shows were full of middle aged white men laughing at rape.
And no, it was not ironic or understated, or a clever reverse parody exposing the real bigots.

It was bearded men dressing up rape as entertainment.

ducksback · 04/05/2020 20:28

God what wanker.

I love RG.

Saucery · 04/05/2020 19:08

The first series of After Life changed my mind, I mean.

Saucery · 04/05/2020 19:07

I’m finding the 2nd series of After Life a bit hard tbh. Maybe the times we’re in, maybe that repulsive therapist character, who knows, but I have to be in the mood for it. I thought RG had disappeared up his own backside since Extras, but that changed my mind.
Detectorists I could just watch on a beautiful, calming loop over and over.

HorseRadishFemish · 04/05/2020 18:21

Bloody loved The Detectorists.

WinterAndRoughWeather · 04/05/2020 18:02

Stewart Lee is bloody tedious these days, but I also thought After Life was a bit shit.

So.

DidoLamenting · 04/05/2020 17:30

I said the following on the last SL thread... He did a similar routine about Only Fools and Horses years ago, which was equally tortuous

I wonder when that was? He used that routine the only time I saw him.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 04/05/2020 17:24

I'd have said Stewart Lee like a shot, which is what makes it all the more disappointing.

This is it - 10 years ago, I'd have said that I didn't like Gervais humour, that Lee was more my cup of tea. Yet here I am, bad taste in my mouth watching Lee because it does seem so bitter, despite the thought that's gone into the words coming out his mouth, but Gervais seems more thoughtful despite the seemingly awful things he says.

And I quite liked afterlife. I thought it was gentle and thoughtful and nice. Like The Detectorists.

RoyalCorgi · 04/05/2020 16:53

I’m amused by the people saying “he’s better live” - as if those of us who find him a bit hmm are going to fork out £60 to see him in person.

When I've been to see Stewart Lee, the tickets were only £25, which is to his credit. He really isn't in it for the money.

If you'd asked me a couple of years ago who was more likely to stand up for women's rights, Stewart Lee or Ricky Gervais, I'd have said Stewart Lee like a shot, which is what makes it all the more disappointing.

SerendipityJane · 04/05/2020 16:34

Has Stew been reading a lot of David Foster Wallace recently? All the "(Reckitt Benckiser Group plc)" which isn't, to my mind, typical Stew patter.

His trademark is tiresome repetition, which he will quite often point out (with tiresome repetition ...)

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popehilarious · 04/05/2020 16:31

Has Stew been reading a lot of David Foster Wallace recently? All the "(Reckitt Benckiser Group plc)" which isn't, to my mind, typical Stew patter.
I kind of like it when he's like a dog with a bone about someone he doesn't like, cf Paul Nuttall.

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 04/05/2020 15:45

I can remember when Stewart Lee had a TV show and Ricky Gervais didn't. He and his sidekick liked to pick on Rod Hull, with a running gag about, "Is there going to be another series of Emu's Pink Windmill Show," at which cue "Rod Hull" mutters bitterly, No.

Helmetbymidnight · 04/05/2020 15:18

i like the bitter persona- it makes me laugh and feel good about myself Smile

Helmetbymidnight · 04/05/2020 15:17

embery