Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Widows' Escape Committee 4 - A New Hope

962 replies

TinselAngel · 03/05/2020 12:23

Who would have thought we'd make it to thread 4?

Let's have some mutual pats on the back for the amazing support women on these threads have given to other trans widows, and the accidental consciousness raising that has come about as a result of this community.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

  1. You are not alone
  2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
  3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

We now have a website which has been very well recived, and if any women who have contributed to these threads would like to write their story for inclusion on the website that would be wonderful.

Do post to get the new thread going. Links to the website and previous threads will follow.

As ever our thoughts are with the women still stuck in these relationships- check in, we do worry about you.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
illaria · 28/07/2020 21:53

I think it’s fair to say I have worked things out. I think on many levels you did love me. You loved the qualities you saw mirrored in yourself, our commonalities.
I also think it’s fair to say you also loved the physical qualities in me you wish to possess if, indeed, you were a woman. I think you picked fights with me due to frustration. A frustration led by the fact I just was not the whole package. I think you truly wanted me but you knew I was ambivalent to the person you are truly in a relationship with.
It is my belief you have a sexual orientation that is inward. Your craving for cross dressing is a craving to be with your true love, yourself as a woman.
I, and no other woman, for that matter can compete with that.
For me, the disproportionate reactions, the hyper-sensitivity, the false equivalence all makes sense now...
You loved me but just not as much as you love your alter-ego. You wanted me to love ‘her’ as much as you do . I was ambivalent to her and that not only offended you but caused you to feel resentment toward me.
I have been the ‘other woman’.
You will never give her up and I now understand this.
I am only sorry that you ever embarked on your affair with me because it was me who was truly the other woman.
I will always love you and I will treasure the good times. I care about you but I fear that care was never reciprocated
You do not know what you do x

illaria · 28/07/2020 21:47

I am someone who writes a journal of sorts - it's more of a recording of what I cannot say out loud.
I feel brave enough to post my latest journal due to the fact I no longer feel so alone having interacted on this forum - I cannot tell you what a relief my being able to express myself has helped me...
Here goes...

illaria · 28/07/2020 18:46

@Iworkmiricles Thank you for your advice. I work in education so could not possibly share with our counsellor as I'm sure any objection to the Trans umbrella would be met with a brick wall. I will go private as I think you are all correct - I seriously need to offload...

illaria · 28/07/2020 18:40

@TinselAngel Thank you! Indeed! Bloody tights!
What is worse is he favoured the American Tan type - ugh! The ambivalence I mentioned, previously, was in relation to the tights ( don't get me wrong, there were other items but tights were special) and general choices which were, very 'benign' not the sexed up choices of other AGPs. My incredulity regarding the 'special place' of tights, I know, offended him. It was all so naff! I know, working in the sector he does, means he liked the sexy secretary look and often tried to persuade me into attire which is not my taste at all, however, his taste in negligees/underwear/dresses was very, as I said, Grattan catalogue circa 1985. Upon reflection, I'm now wondering if my not particularly taking the cross dressing seriously was because of the fancy dress look rather than the porno look? 🤔
I'm now beginning to think it's tied to his mother and her tastes at the time he became eroticised by 'women's' clothes...
Which makes it worse...

TinselAngel · 28/07/2020 17:46

Having read all of your accounts, I believe I'm right in thinking these episodes will not dissipate - the escalation will only become worse regardless of my feelings...

You are exactly right and should hold onto that.

Incidentally, tights FFS? Most women go out of their way to avoid wearing them. 🙄

OP posts:
Iworkmiricles · 28/07/2020 17:45

Counselling is essential. Speak tyoye emolyer/hr as they may have an arrangement with an organisation or speak to your gp. If all else fails, pay, but you can't do this without thus kind of support

illaria · 28/07/2020 15:22

@TinselAngel @MonkeyBusinessLads Thank you got your wise words. I suppose there is an element of grief for the other person he was, the majority of the time. Bumping along quite nicely until the Amazon delivery dropped, with more and more frequency in the latter months, of literally 50 pairs of tights, bought in a seeming frenzy, and the following feeling of dread knowing I'd have to witness a weekend of his debauchery and posturing. I'd then be torn by thinking, let him get on with it and feelings of outrage that I should have to...
Having read all of your accounts, I believe I'm right in thinking these episodes will not dissipate - the escalation will only become worse regardless of my feelings...

MonkeyBusinessLads · 28/07/2020 07:10

Yes you need to let go of any "responsibility" you feel towards him. I'm finally at the point that I have no feelings towards my ex apart from occasional irritation about what a useless father he is on behalf of our daughter. The relationship is over and you need to cut the ties in every way. Counselling would be a way to tell your truth and close this chapter and move forward with your life.

TinselAngel · 27/07/2020 21:58

I don't know what would be worse, porn or poems Grin

It's never benign, you are right. AGP is always damaging to women either directly because actual women are coerced into participating in it or indirectly because it perpetuates a patriarchal submissive view of female sexuality.

Why are you still so worried about what happens to him when you are not together any more? I think when you've been used to being in crisis management mode for a long time, it can be difficult to let go. I know this sounds harsh but not your circus, not your monkeys.

You need to find some peace with the fact that you have no control over the situation- in reality you never really did, any control you thought you had was wishful thinking Thanks

OP posts:
illaria · 27/07/2020 21:44

@TinselAngel some days I wake up thinking, "My God, he's a total narc who treated you appallingly!"
Other days I wake thinking "God, I hope he is okay and not being taking advantage of"
The latter, if I were to burden you with the goings on is utterly asinine. Why do I feel this way? Some days, I honestly think I've been groomed by him, other days, I am so angry! Is it me? Should I care? Am I being an idiot, was this his plan?
I just don't know. It's a burden I've never experienced ever before and one o think, in my rational moments, is something you would not, if you lived a person, you would ever lay at another's door...

So sorry to ramble on.

Thank you for giving me an outlet x

illaria · 27/07/2020 21:33

*porn not poem

illaria · 27/07/2020 21:27

@TinselAngel furthermore, the DARVO tactics are shocking, I fell dreadful because part of my not telling friends and family what he is really like dies, is some way, make me look idiotic and I'm preserving my own ego? I just wish I'd have run for the hills, however, something stopped me and I feel I have to take responsibility for the fact. Hours and hours of observing him taking cocaine and then poem. I'd tentatively asked him to stop but he wouldn't. It seems because he'd told me "what I am", it's excusable. I don't think it is. It is not benign, it's pernicious

illaria · 27/07/2020 21:16

@TinselAngel thank you so much for responding. I suppose it's because I'm embarrassed. When we first met, he told me it was benign, just a bit of fun. I was, from the outset very ambivalent - I soon learned that my response was not what he wanted to hear - he wanted to be praised and lorded - however, I digress. Initially, I thought "Okay, I'm fine with this". It took a year for him to gradually become confident - tights are his thing. In the meantime, I began reading (Blanchard et al) and became an ally. When I say this, I mean I wanted to defend a person who wants to wear tights in his own home as something separate from being an all out AGP. The more I read, the uneasier he became. I now believe he would pick fights with me because I was critical of - ie didn't believe that dressing like an extra from Grattan's catalogue circa 1985 makes you a woman. What I didn't realise is my nonchalant approach would lead to what I regard as a complete assault on me. I thought I was letting him off / separating him from the aggressive TRA movement. I now think he resented me for that and I can't possibly come clean as all friends and family know I'm a GC feminist
His cross dressing is led by stress and always involve class A consumption - I just couldn't be around it anymore. In short, It is not benign, my indifference became a problem and a figurative stick to beat me with.
He is a prominent lawyer and despite his treatment of me, I feel I cannot betray him.
My fear is that he will be found dead, in tights

QuinnMovesOn · 27/07/2020 17:02

@illaria, counseling really helped me, it might be something to consider. These situations are such a mind fuck, I know I needed professional help to even start the process of moving past this.

TinselAngel · 27/07/2020 15:37

Yes the grief is very real.

Hi @illaria can I ask why you feel you can't tell anybody?

Obviously if he's cross dressing in secret it's better that you don't shout it from the rooftops but aren't there any trustworthy friends or relatives that you can confide in? You need to be able to talk about it.

Part of the strain of being in these relationships is being the secret keeper. You shouldn't feel obliged for this to continue after the relationship is over if it's detrimental to your own mental health. I also think talking about it would help you stop worrying about him, because I'd hope whoever you talked to would tell you it's not your circus to worry about any more Thanks

OP posts:
illaria · 26/07/2020 19:12

Hi, I've been following you all for sometime. I finally feel able to post. I feel I am going through the most awful of grieving period for my relationship of the last four years. My now ex partner is a cross dresser but I am the only person who knows this. I feel such a burden is on my shoulders as I worry about him and his pursuits but I also cannot confide in anyone about why our relationship ended or indeed, why I am filled with such grief and fear. I feel as though I am stuck and cannot liberate myself and wash the relationship way. I find it very hard to lie and because of this, I am finding myself increasingly engaging in solitary behaviour, avoidance tactics in order to avoid talking about my ex and the reasons I could not continue with the relationship. I just can't bring myself to betray him ( although his behaviour toward me has been shocking) or indeed, have to explain why I ever excepted and tolerated his behaviour
I feel like such a fool...

QuinnMovesOn · 25/07/2020 00:53

I feel like I'm in Social's "washing machine" of emotions right now, I think because of some stuff that came up in counseling today. Anger, grief, resentment. I feel like there's never going to be an end to this. Though I can look back and see that I'm better over time, it just feels like it's taking forever to get past my divorce.

SeasideM · 23/07/2020 20:04

@TinselAngel that is a really good point about them being used to male entitlement.

Even besides the identity change the person I met initially never existed. Some days the bizarre things now (the drama with new friends is just mind boggling to listen to...guessing it is the second puberty I hear about? Very childish and annoying.) helps with detaching and then other days the grief comes to the front. Resolution seems so far off on the down days.

TinselAngel · 22/07/2020 10:14

@Cadanita1

Has anyone else found that once you leave the coercive control of your partner that your adult children appear to fill the space he left behind.
What I have found, and apologies if I'm barking up the wrong tree here for anybody else, is that I've noticed similarities in my own behaviour when I deal with DD to when I dealt with her Dad or my subsequent partner.

So things that she does or says can make me feel the same way as I did before because it triggers something from the past, I can then respond in a way that isn't particularly helpful.

I don't know if this will ring any bells?

OP posts:
TinselAngel · 22/07/2020 10:07

mirikles, I think what you are missing here is a feminist analysis of what you are describing. A male transitioner is likely to behave differently to a female transitioner due to male entitlement. Women are used to not getting what we want, we're trained for it from the cradle. Men are not.

OP posts:
Iworkmiricles · 21/07/2020 15:08

Seaside, I know what you mean about the flags and looking back at all the times I should have left, the times that things happened that are almost worse than they are now, but I stuck with it because I wanted a balanced life for me girls, and the thought of being a lone was worse. That I would have failed. Now I see that I should have gone, but it's too late now. My eldest doesn't want us to split, but I don''t see how I can stay. Today has been great, they have been helpful, chatty and offering to do a few things, but equally, we were sorting out a bill and they were just so flipping slow and clicking from screen to screen so I couldn't work out what was happening.
My plan of saying something this week is going out of the window too, as I have managed to get child 1 away, but child 2 is refusing, so is doing something else, but that is moving a day and a day further away.
I feel awful saying something when things are good, but then again, is better to say something now whilst they are in a better frame of mind? I sometimes think "hey, I am really strong" but that's all in my own head, when I talk to someone, I am actually a woman on the edge.

SeasideM · 20/07/2020 22:30

East it really is difficult and the grief alone is bound to send you up and down. Losing someone that is physically still there but at the same time so very much not there has been so surreal.

Miracles it must be tough right now. So sorry it is extra difficult now. The person you talked to that mentioned about mindset/attitude...I’m starting to see that as well at home. Even without this change the ridiculous things I’m hearing from them lately has shown me I’d still struggle to remain in this relationship were the identity issues evaporate. Many other things going on alongside the identity making one giant mess.

Finding that the person I initially met was a fiction in lots of ways. Lots of red flags not even tied to identity that I missed, many I didn’t miss but chose to ignore, and no way to go back and jump out earlier. Just some of the things they say have me wondering who on Earth this person is!

Cadanita1 · 19/07/2020 12:26

Has anyone else found that once you leave the coercive control of your partner that your adult children appear to fill the space he left behind.

Iworkmiricles · 18/07/2020 16:52

I had a conversation with a lady who had started transitioning late teens. She now works with lgbt young people.
she was horrified at what I was putting up with, couldn't believe how selfish s/he was and this is not the trans thing but their mindset and attitude to life.
I'm struggling at the moment as s/he hasn't been able to get the horman treatment for nearly two weeks, so they are presenting as make and it's almost like I am getting my husband back. This is going to make telling them I want a divorce, their name off the mortgage and the fact they are in the house is effecting the kids wellbeing to tougher.

Rettstar · 18/07/2020 15:35

As part of my therapy, I write about my experiences. However, I want to divorce myself emotionally while I do this.

I'm going to write in my journal about the abuse I endured, then I've started writing a paper of sorts, an essay, on my journey. I'm a student academic, so I'm not going to write an essay without including source material. I don't know how long it will be. I will be using theories and studies, because there's a part of me that wants a genuine dialogue or argument to be well researched.

I don't know if I'll do anything with it when I'm done.