Times article on the CPS guidance withdrawl

I couldn't see anything about involvement in education on an initial read of their website.

It is no part of their function. They have an "Inclusion and community engagement strategy" which references their need to meet the requirements of the Equality Act. The document they published in 2018 correctly names the protected characteristics. Their 2019 progress report does not flag any new found interest in trans-issues.

www.cps.gov.uk/publication/cps-2020-inclusion-and-community-engagement-strategy

I mean it lets face it, how many women ( and some men even) have emailed it tweeted in depth information , peer reviewed facts and figures, accounts from de transitioned, they have posted all sorts of things that cannot be justified in any way shape or form and it's all.ignored. all of it. No one is even worried about sending an email telling you that they will no longer engage any more.

Then they all go ahead retweeting someone posting nothing more than an acronym . No facts nothing. Just 4 letters is all it takes for a mass following and endorsement from charities to the police.

They know. They cant not know.

I think the cps probably already know.

It was lisa muggeridge wasn't it who said that these people strategically place themselves in jobs that give them the opportunity to influence.

Our favourite Canadian has single handedly shown the world the inevitable outcome of all this.

Theres only one reason they would ignore it. And we know what that reason is.

I think the CPS need to properly educate themselves on trans matters; in other words listen to all the evidence and apply some critical thinking.

Is their approach to this matter the same as to prosecuting criminal trials: find only evidence that supports your case and expect someone else to present the opposing evidence and a third party to assess it and make a decision on whether their evidence carries any weight?

Completely agree about 'educate'. The thing that strikes me about people who want to educate everyone else is that they are so very resistant to being educated themselves. They're never willing to try understand someone's argument so they can find common ground and actually make progress.
It's almost as if 'educate yourself' really means 'just believe what you're told'
Of course, it always makes me think of Martina Navratilova who was told to educate herself, actually did so and came with a giant 'Hell no'.

"I loathe the use of 'educate'. What, specifically, do the CPS want to teach young people?"

Remember Liam Madigan? Exactly what he said Muslim women need, be "educated".

And something you hear a lot on the internet. People at first always think you just need to be "educated" on trans matters, but when they realize you can't be brainwashed it breaks down into "terf/transphobic".

As every school seems to have an lgbtq++ society, is it time more schools had a feminist society?

I think that would be really hard to achieve. The very first argument would centre around whether boys can join (NB boys, trans or just any boy who is a 'male feminist' in the making). It would immediately split the group into factions with half the girls pandering to males who wanted in. They'd probably win the argument and it would become as useless a group as Sisters Uncut.

Just in the last hour on this thread, the insights are very revealing.

This is not just true in regards to schools but all across the board. TRA orgs present themselves as experts and people believe them. Doesn't seem to matter that just to take one example Susie Green was an IT consultant and has no training in child development whatsoever.

People don't understand the trans ideology, or grasp what they are trying to promote.

They don't understand the underlying agenda, but neither do they understand the overt, open agenda. Because it's all so opaque and deliberately difficult to understand - or complete bollocks, depending on your viewpoint (and command of language).

So they just take the word of which ever person presents themself as an expert, because they think there is something to understand, that they're not getting.

"a:gender" is the UK Government's own network of: "Transgender, Transsexual, Non-Binary, Gender Fluid, Genderqueer, Gender Variant, Cross-dresser, Genderless, Third gender or Bigender, and anyone who is Intersex."

BigBad What an inspirational young lady, perceptive and acting with integrity.

As every school seems to have an lgbtq++ society, is it time more schools had a feminist society?

truthisarevolutionaryact I totally agree. I was disappointed that the CPS withdrew the guidelines. I know it would have been a huge emotional toll and financial risk on those pursuing it so for their sake it was good news. But it needs to go to court and be properly pulled apart, it needs the court to say ‘this guidance is illegal, it discriminated against girls, undermines safeguarding, and breaches the human rights of all children, it undermines the impartiality of the prosecution service bringing its ability to function into question, and the government must answer serious questions about how a political lobby group has been allowed to use the justice system to proper gate their interest, and the government must write to all schools to ensure that they are all aware that this guidance and any similar guidance must be binned’

Great posts (again)
Until the government stop funding and signposting schools to these groups, nothing will change. Frankly we needed the CPS guidance to be taken apart in the courts because without this, there is no impetus for the government to do anything. And the status quo is that they are hand in glove with Stonewall, Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence via the civil service.
Our children cannot wait for another 'Rotherham grooming in plain sight' scandal to erupt. They must be protected from these groups now - not after immense harm has been done.

This is not just true in regards to schools but all across the board. TRA orgs present themselves as experts and people believe them. Doesn't seem to matter that just to take one example Susie Green was an IT consultant and has no training in child development whatsoever.

What also does it say of the extent of experience/knowledge of those responsible for writing policy within Ministry of Justice, Police, NHS, Social Care, education etc?

This has been sold due to government funding and involvement legitimising and giving a trustworthy veneer to what is, in fact, a political lobby. This has effectively hidden that it is a political lobby, and presented it instead as a neutral expert voice.

This is not just true in regards to schools but all across the board. TRA orgs present themselves as experts and people believe them. Doesn't seem to matter that just to take one example Susie Green was an IT consultant and has no training in child development whatsoever.

They will have used, in good faith, trusted providers.

Same issue with the rolled out training.

This has been sold due to government funding and involvement legitimising and giving a trustworthy veneer to what is, in fact, a political lobby. This has effectively hidden that it is a political lobby, and presented it instead as a neutral expert voice.

It has happened alongside overworked, busy people in schools who are constantly bombarded with guidance packs about this that and the other from govt that has to be implemented yesterday and the appropriate targets waved at OFSTED. Multiple packs arrive each week, there's been about 20 years of hyperactive legislators/guidance producers churning this stuff out by the bucketful, schools are drowning in it, and it isn't like they don't have a day job.

Schools have not considered the need to do due diligence, essentially because no political lobby group has pulled this one before, and they've assumed govt validation. Trust has been successfully exploited, and people in govt have quietly enabled this along while bypassing the HoC, MPs and boring things like democratic mandate.

People without qualifications to speak on safeguarding, because of (knowledge in the public domain) having no training in safeguarding and in one case the lack of capacity to understanding safeguarding, or equalities because of no training, knowledge or experience in any other group covered by legislation, plus easily found online histories that should preclude their being delivering training to schools at all, have trained on safeguarding and equalities, encouraged and in some cases helped to write policies incompatible with safeguarding and equalities and law.

Including the fear and taboo against whistleblowing, this is a system that has been very successfully exploited.

So if they dont read the times then....

I'm going to hazard a buess and say that OCC havent informed their schools either...

I have looked for these policies on my local council website but haven't found them yet
I did think about writing however I disnt want to also prompt them into putting it up or seeking advice of that makes sense.

Can any teachers confirm that office staff regularly check for updates etc?

Teachers will be accessing and using a vast number of resources in all subject areas. They will have used, in good faith, trusted providers. It would be impossible to monitor each provider for updates.

There will need to be much more proactive alerts by Department for Education about those toolkits, resources & training which have provided demonstrably false & harmful information/ guidance to teachers.

Can any teachers confirm that office staff regularly check for updates etc?

I mean the numbers of schools accessing these things are in the thousands. Wouldnt it invalidate their insurance if they were following unapproved guidelines?

When this stuff is withdrawn or reviewed do they they have to email/inform every school in order to tell them not to use the guidance?

They will probably just say they are ‘updating it’ which everyone will assume means style changes not ‘we knew it was illegal so when someone threatened to take us to court we withdrew it and hope to get away with some minor amendments when the publicity has subsided’.

Well yes Datun, but don't forget the CPS won first prize for the government's Transgender Health Check in 2017.

'A:gender' who are, as shown in the Twitter thread linked, based in the Home Office have been influential in shaping government policy for a long time. Presumably with Press For Change/Beaumont Society etc (before Stonewall became involved)?

Is Spousal Veto based on Swiss Cheese?
November 9, 2013 by Helen Belcher

"Last weekend Prof Stephen Whittle posted his legal reasoning why the requirement for spousal consent is important. Stephen is a professor of law, and his credentials in terms of campaigning for the rights of trans people are impressive, to say the least.

After an event in July, Stephen, Jacqui Gavin (of a:Gender) and I sat down in a small cafe in Westminster, where Stephen started outlining the thoughts he has now expressed in his blog."
(continues)
challengingjourneys.wordpress.com/2013/11/09/is-spousal-veto-based-on-swiss-cheese/
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007?pg=6

from the link by WootMaggie

""a:gender" is the UK Government's own network of: "Transgender, Transsexual, Non-Binary, Gender Fluid, Genderqueer, Gender Variant, Cross-dresser, Genderless, Third gender or Bigender, and anyone who is Intersex."

You do not have to be ‘out’ in the workplace to become a member. We maintain absolute discretion." it also includes "Any member of the Civil Service who wishes to support the aims and objectives of the a:gender network"

This Transgender network's email address is particularly interesting: [email protected] - (the Home Office being the government department that controls the Police). Does this not signal conflict-of-interest?

The network's home page links directly to Mermaids, the controversial child sex-change support charity.

The network states: "We liaise and attend internal meetings with Civil Service departments and external meetings on behalf of the Civil Service, such as with providers of support for Trans and Intersex people (e.g. GIRES, Stonewall, Mermaids)"

This Transgender network also performs an annual "Health Check" across Government departments. The Crown Prosecution Service (who decide who should be prosecuted, and for what) state:
"In 2017 the CPS was awarded first place in the a:gender health check."

I could say more, but I am sure that you can draw your own conclusions from the information, links and downloads available at agender.org.uk "

Westminster
Women and Equalities Committee Trans Enquiry
Tuesday 13 October 2015

Witnesses: Peter Dunne, Visiting Researcher, New York University Law School, Karen Harvey, Chair, a:gender, James Morton, Manager, Scottish Transgender Alliance, and Ashley Reed, initiator of online petition on gender self-definition

parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4e7f52c6-1357-43f8-98c0-af160b156b40

It baffles me that people might not have questioned the agenda of a group named a:gender

They should do, shouldn't they? Like when a batch of yoghurts are contaminated or a dangerous toy is put on sale. They should recall it

Usually all these things are buried on website or pc file and not touched until one day its needed fir a reference. I wonder how many schools have been read it after downloading any update...

It should be a legal obligation to inform everyone that it's been withdrawn and bloody explain why.

What a very brave young girl. It really shouldn't have come to the point of a teenage girl having to be the adult in the room. The fact it has says it all really.

The CPS should be hugely embarrassed by this. What the hell were they thinking?

What is good about this and the GEO/Equaliteach situation also is that this insidious form of lobbying and policy capture I think is now on the radar of some people who may actually do something about it.

Hm. My kids' school used to have a lot of insistence that the kids had to be friends with everyone, one of the school rules, I think. I had to reassure my kids that while they had to be polite and respectful to everyone but there is no way they have to be 'friends' with anyone they don't want to be friends with.

I think it's the thin end of a very dangerous wedge.

TheBigBad, your daughter is amazing. I am in awe of her. I hope she continues to be so brave, compassionate, clear sighted and determined. She really does give me huge hope for the future.

When this stuff is withdrawn or reviewed do they they have to email/inform every school in order to tell them not to use the guidance?

They should do, shouldn't they? Like when a batch of yoghurts are contaminated or a dangerous toy is put on sale. They should recall it.

I asked on another thread but I couldbt find the answer.

When this stuff is withdrawn or reviewed do they they have to email/inform every school in order to tell them not to use the guidance?

Do they say why? Because of they dont people would then assume anything from " Its wrong/illegal" to "they forgot to put someone/organisations ' name on the credits "

How can we be sure that schools are not using it.

And this is the bloody CPS, the CPS!

Well yes Datun, but don't forget the CPS won first prize for the government's Transgender Health Check in 2017.

https://twitter.com/onlyobjectivity/status/1150370972995870721?s=21