What broader issues has the trans (lack of) debate opened your eyes to?

as it's being used a lot that should say

Are we allowed to say the c word now as you're using it a lot and I thought it was a banned one?

If you're a biological woman you are not a trans woman

I am a woman by biology. I am included under the trans umbrella. I am therefore a woman who is trans.

And you're denying me that, so that men can have the words.

Which was my original point.

Just to really throw the cat among the pigeons:

A transwoman is a cis male.

It's an accepted sex role stereotype open to and associated with males; and they're comfortably occupying it. Which makes them c*s, by their definitions.

The only person on this thread who's trying to tell others who or what they are is you, in your insistence that I may not correctly identify myself as a trans woman.

If you're a biological woman you are not a trans woman.
You're a woman.
WTF do you even know what it means lol
If you're saying you're a woman with gender dysphoria, which you did upthread, that'd mean you'd be a trans man.
But then you said "why do you think I don't identify as a woman?" (because you said you had gender dysphoria?)
So you sound like a woman who is gender non conforming and there's absolutely zilch wrong with that.

Nobody believed the "Transwomen are women" line, so now it's "Transwomen includes cis (🤮)women too

I haven't said that though.
Anywhere.
Somebody else said they were a biological woman who was trans, so were including themselves in the term too which is why it went WTF.
Take it up with them if it wasn't to me, as trans women being cs women (your word, not mine) makes you puke emoji - they're trans but biological (or your word cs)

why would you get to tell someone else what they are or aren't?

So you agree that I could call myself a trans women, and nobody else should be able to tell me that I'm not? I am female, and since I don't have a gender or identify as any gender, that makes me trans according to Stonewall's definition. So trans woman fits who I am, and only I can say what I am or what I am not.

Good to see we agree.

It'd be nothing to do with you, you don't get to tell others what they should be or who they are

The only person on this thread who's trying to tell others who or what they are is you, in your insistence that I may not correctly identify myself as a trans woman.

From what I can gather, the word transwoman has no legal standing at all. It's not in any legislation. It's made up by a political lobby group. Who also say that homosexual is a medical term. 🙄

Cross dressers are trans, also. They will often say that they're men. Just not, er, all the time.

Curious how at the same time that the TRA push for more and more privileges 'rights' is being called out for being against the best interests of women and girls, someone decides to start trying to obfuscate what a transwoman is.

Nobody believed the "Transwomen are women" line, so now it's "Transwomen includes cis (🤮)women too, as well as the original men it once meant, but now doesn't strictly mean that so try ban us now."

We are not permitted to make the distinction
How would you know what someone else was, though?
If you are not permitted to (your words) then that makes sense - I mean why would you get to tell someone else what they are or aren't?
It'd be nothing to do with you, you don't get to tell others what they should be or who they are.

I assume you’re quite new to the feminist threads, LemonadeAndDaisyChains? I’m not being funny when I ask, just genuinely interested, because of your insistence on defining women by TRA narratives, even when she disagrees with those narratives. I’m not calling you a TRA, by the way. It’s the fact that you’re hell bent on insisting that a women who doesn’t fit the stereotype of a woman as defined by Stonewall, so therefore is by, Stonewall’s definition trans, must then identify as a trans man.

I'm guessing Debbie H is identifying as women who identifies as a man with a fetish?

So one single person says that, what has that got to do with all other trans people though?
Debbie H says it according to you, that's just one person who won't speak for everyone.

Here's stonewall's definition of trans for you Lemonade, since you seem a bit confused about what it means.

Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms#t

Not all women who identify as trans identify as 'transmen'. They might be gender-fluid or non-binary or genderless or genderfree... Why shouldn't those women call themselves trans women, since they are women who are transgender?

Not all trans have a fetish, theyre not one big lump of people.

Very true, and we did used to have the terminology to distinguish.

Unfortunately the words "transvestite" and "transsexual" are considered transphobic by the trans lobby. We are not permitted to make the distinction.

So you have gender dysphoria too? That's when you feel a difference to your birth sex

Again, I suggest you go and do some research. You're talking about sex dysphoria, not gender dysphoria.

Sex dysphoria is no longer considered a prerequisite for self-definition as trans, just so you know.

Transwoman - a man identifying as a sexist social construct used to oppress women and girls. Makes perfect sense to me that Debbie identifies in this way.

You can't just decide no it doesn't mean that and make your own version up lol

Who decided that men could call themselves women? I don't suppose women had any say in it. I can't see why women can't reclaim the word that describes themselves.

The terms 'trans women' and 'transwomen' only came into usage recently, and someone had to make that up. Some men decided woman no longer meant 'adult female human' and made up their own version. All we're doing is reclaiming the original meaning. The TRAs are the ones who've made stuff up.

I'm guessing Debbie H is identifying as women who identifies as a man with a fetish?

A man, identifying as a woman, identifying as a man.

What a good job somebody at the GEO rubberstamped lessons in this.

I don't get why people are finding it so hard to read my actual words?

I have no problem reading your words, but you don't seem to know what you've written.

First you say that a woman who identifies as trans is a trans woman
No, I didn't.

You did. Go back and read your post at 13:26.

You quoted what I had said: "If a woman identifies as transgender, using normal rules of language, that would make her a transgender woman or trans woman"

You replied: Yes. Trans woman.

So you agreed that a woman who identifies as transgender is a trans woman.

Debbie H freely admits they have a fetish, that only biological men have

OK, but Debbie H is one single person, who clearly doesn't speak for everyone who is trans?
Not all trans have a fetish, theyre not one big lump of people.

You don't believe in non-binary identities then Lemonade?

Debbie H says they're a biological man, but is still a transwoman. Debbie H freely admits they have a fetish, that only biological men have. Still a transwoman though.

So the gender dysphoria and the lifelong discomfort with sex stereotypes and the rejection by female peers on the grounds of failing to woman properly don't make me trans

Well, yes - I'm not a fan of sex stereotypes either as a woman.
Doesn't make me trans though.
So you have gender dysphoria too? That's when you feel a difference to your birth sex, but on the other hand you said "Where did I say I don't see myself as a woman?*
That'd only begin to make sense if you're a biological man.
You sound confused

So the gender dysphoria and the lifelong discomfort with sex stereotypes and the rejection by female peers on the grounds of failing to woman properly don't make me trans purely because I don't claim to be a man?

You seem to be implying that to be trans is simply to make a false statement about one's biological sex?