What broader issues has the trans (lack of) debate opened your eyes to?

I'll ask one final time, Lemonade:

Can my ex be both trans and a man?

The fact that you've twice now failed to even acknowledge this question, in contrast to how quick you were to insist on misgendering me, says it all really.

So going by your logic, there was no such thing as trans people (or at the least, a lot less) trans people before women got rights?
I'm sure they were still around.

Pretty evidently there weren't. It wasn't even a concept people had. There was no real possibility of changing sexual characteristics in any substantial way, and their impact was significant. And there was no concept of gender as some separate category.

I’ve seen ‘trans Muslim wives’ on twitter. Not quite the same thing but still an odd mindset.

A man is less likely to identify as a woman if this loses him rights

So going by your logic, there was no such thing as trans people (or at the least, a lot less) trans people before women got rights?
I'm sure they were still around.

I fear you've missed OldCrone's point entirely.

A man is less likely to identify as a woman if this loses him rights.

So no comment on whether my ex can be a man who is trans, then?

What OldCrone means is that a man no longer loses voting rights by identifying as a woman

No, but my point was that if you're trans, you'd still be trans whether you were allowed to vote or not.
Really bizarre IMO to think that voting rights has anything to do with being trans and that they'd be more likely to say they're trans as they still get the vote

So a man comes out as trans, why would you decide to become a woman just because women can now vote?

What OldCrone means is that a man no longer loses voting rights by identifying as a woman.

BTW I just checked with ex, who as a self-identified AGP very definitely fits under the trans umbrella. He's quite adamant that he's not a woman, he's a man.

Is he allowed to be a man who is trans?

Are you a man
No, I'm a woman.
All I was saying was that women being able to vote is still my right, it takes nothing away from me in that sense.
So a man comes out as trans, why would you decide to become a woman just because women can now vote?
Seems a bit..... drastic.
They'd still be trans whether they had the vote or not.

You use to vote as an example - it takes nothing away from me in the way of rights that women are allowed to vote.
My rights are still there.

Are you a man?

Because they're not. They're trans women.

By saying that a man can be a woman if he says he is, you are implying that there is something he has in common with me and all other women and that he is different from all other men (apart from the other men who say they are women).

If some men are women, what definition of woman are you using? What turns a man into a woman?

I think I've had enough of the merry-go-round for now.

Good luck with your sexist cognitive bias, Lemonade.

Do get back to me if you can think of a word I can call myself that encompasses both my trans experience and my being a woman, won't you?

Why can't transwomen just say they're men?
Because they're not. They're trans women.

Just say you're a woman.

The options you're giving me are a) trans man or b) woman. The first is untrue; I am not a man of any sort. The second denies my trans experience.

Why can't transwomen just say they're men?

Antibles thanks for getting us back on topic. It's an arms race really, isn't it?

Top bit was supposed to be bolded as a quote, sorry

Also, I knew that women's rights were not written in stone once achieved, I just never predicted that they would be used against us in such an inventive way as soon as we had them i.e. once there was no longer a major loss to a man socially and financially from saying he was a woman because he can still vote, own property, do any job etc.
How is it being used against us?
You use to vote as an example - it takes nothing away from me in the way of rights that women are allowed to vote.
My rights are still there.
I doubt a man would think "ooh, it's easier to become a woman now, I think I'll become a woman as I can still vote and nothing's taken away from me" sounds a bit of a drastic step to take lol -

Bit late to the thread. My eyes were already open to a lot of things but the thing that shocked me was how my supposedly democratic society was so vulnerable to this utterly Orwellian 1984 attack on language and truth in the pursuit of power and that such a flimsy disguise as frock and lippy would do the trick in this instance.

Also, I knew that women's rights were not written in stone once achieved, I just never predicted that they would be used against us in such an inventive way as soon as we had them i.e. once there was no longer a major loss to a man socially and financially from saying he was a woman because he can still vote, own property, do any job etc.

Same with the violent porn which I reckon is some kind of backlash to the fact that it's now illegal to hit your partner - except apparently in the bedroom.

Basically, I didn't realise how vehement, swift, cunning and inventive the backlash against women would be for demanding equal rights and fair representation in society.

I hadn't truly realised the extent of how much they hate us and hate to cede power.

you don't get to tell a woman that she can't be a trans woman. She is if she says she is

True.
Same goes for men then
Can't have it both ways.
I have no right to say that the poster upthread isn't trans, just like posters on here have no right to tell other people that they aren't.

I'm pointing out the sexism of denying women access to the language we need to describe ourselves in this brave new world.
Just say you're a woman.
It's not a banned word, we are still women.

I think we all get the pedantic point you are making about the exact words and literal application....but when talk about my boyfriend, I don't mean my friend, who is a boy

Well, no, of course you don't. If you meant a friend who is a boy you'd be saying boy friend.

I'm not just making a pedantic point here. I'm pointing out the sexism of denying women access to the language we need to describe ourselves in this brave new world.

If you're a biological woman you are not a trans woman.

You've just done it again. Told a woman who identifies as trans that she can't be a trans woman.

If you don't get to tell others what they should be or who they are, you don't get to tell a woman that she can't be a trans woman. She is if she says she is.

I hate the word cis.....so I added a puke. I hate using it. But when the words I normally use are being pointedly misused by others, then I have no choice.

I am a woman by biology. I am included under the trans umbrella. I am therefore a woman who is trans
OK, but some people on here have a puke emoticon reaction to you saying that you're a biological woman who is trans.
Or did the puke post only apply to if it's a male biological man who identifies as trans, as that comes across as a bit hypocritical and double standards if so

If refere to myself as a housewife, I am not saying I am a house, who is married

We're not allowed to use it to describe individuals, because many of the women here rightly view it as a slur.

When discussing the inconsistencies within the ideology, however, one does need to be able to mention the concept. You can mentally imagine an asterisk in there if it makes you feel better; thank you for pointing out that I missed one.

@TyroSaysMeow I think we all get the pedantic point you are making about the exact words and literal application....but when talk about my boyfriend, I don't mean my friend, who is a boy