Julie Bindel on twitter

The Department of Health & Social Care "support[s] ministers in leading the nation’s health and social care to help people live more independent, healthier lives for longer."

twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1257332511912460290

I think we all mostly agree on all this but the academic side seem to want transexual males to be referred to as women, whereas Posie et al. including Jenn Smith, say that they are male

GIRES Trustees Annual Reports 2014-18
beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?regid=1068137&subid=0

2018
(extract)
"GIRES has been at the forefront of campaigns to improve the lives of trans people through stronger legal protection, better medical care and greater respect within society. The charity responds to the constant stream of invitations to contribute to consultations on policies that affect the lives of gender diverse people, for instance with regard to the gender recognition process or the education of medical professionals. It also attends the meetings of influential bodies where issues of concern to gender diverse people are discussed, including the Parliamentary Forum on Gender Identity, the Equality and Diversity Forum, the Gender Recognition Panel Users Group, the Office of National Statistics, the Crown Prosecution Service Community Accountability Forum and the National LGB&T Partnership. In addition, GIRES has participated in the development of Good Practice Guidelines for the assessment and treatment of gender incongruent adults and the NHS England specifications for gender identity services for adults and young people. The World Professional Association for Transgender Health has honoured GIRES for its work in education.

Consequently, there is much more to do. The law needs to be simplified and broadened, to respect the autonomy of the individual, and to recognise the great variation between individuals in the gender
diverse population" (continues)

"GIRES is working on monitoring gender identity accurately with NHS England, the Office for National Statistics and the Solicitors Regulation Authority. Gender is often used incorrectly as synonymous with sex. GIRES supports the application of the term “sex” to biological factors and “gender” to psychosocial and cultural factors. Hence, male/female are terms for describing sex. Man/woman, or any variations between or outside these psychosocial categories, are terms for describing gender identity'*

Stonewall Youth information
PUBLISHED 17 JUNE 15

Gender Identity
"Your gender identity is a way to describe how you feel about your gender. You might identify your gender as a boy or a girl or something different. This is different from your sex, which is related to your physical body and biology. People are assigned a gender identity at birth based on their sex.

Some interesting things to think about:

Everyone has a gender identity and expresses their gender in a unique and personal way. This could be through the clothes you wear, the way you stand, the interests you have.
Someone else can’t tell you what your gender identity is – only you know how you feel and you should never feel pressured to label yourself or fit in with other people’s ideas.
Some people know from a young age that their gender identity doesn’t feel the same as what they were assigned at birth, and some people may take a while to work out their gender identity. This is completely fine, everyone is unique.
When talking about gender there can be a lot of words and phrases used that you might not have heard before. We’ve listed some below, but you may hear more:

Gender expression – this is the way that you express your gender! For example, if you identify as a girl you might want to dress in a certain way or read certain books. A lot of people might not be aware of their gender expression, as it’s a natural way that we express ourselves.

Gender dysphoria – this is when someone feels uncomfortable about the gender they were assigned and who they really are. For example, if someone was assigned as a boy at birth and grew up feeling that this wasn’t right, they may have gender dysphoria. There is help and support available for people who experience this.

Transition/transitioning – if someone feels uncomfortable about their gender identity they may choose to transition. This is a very personal decision and can happen in lots of different ways, depending on the person and the options available to them. " (continues)
www.youngstonewall.org.uk/lgbtq-info/gender-identity

Woman / man and girl / boy are not gender identities. They are nouns which specifically describe sex, age and species. All of which are key factors in Safeguarding decisions and responsibilities.

It's a lot more complicated than that Coyocan.

I have only the sketchiest idea of what's been going on interpersonally between these women, but it does seem clear to me that it would be better for everyone if the majority of it took place outside of the public domain.

And if discussions in the public domain could be contained in one platform at a time, instead of all the cross referencing to Twitter, asking people to join dots etc.

I think we all mostly agree on all this but the academic side seem to want transexual males to be referred to as women, whereas Posie et al. including Jenn Smith, say that they are male. I have zero interest in gratuitously offending anyone, but I personally agree with Posie and Jenn.

Yet still 2 broadly different approaches.

I disagree that there are two tribes /two approaches /two sides

There are a large number of women who have been working hard to try to protect Safeguarding &/or women's sex based rights in a wide range of ways.

There is wider important context for women being able to identify male-pattern abusive behaviours which pre-dates discussion about gender identities.

Yes. I suspect JB is aware of that. Being an experienced feminist. Yet still 2 broadly different approaches.

What a mess

Yes. But progress has been made.

Having followed a few Twitter trails today, I can see now that this is not only about political leanings and tribes but that there are also personal loyalties, friendships, allegations, anger and hurt in the mix too, none of which helps with finding a resolution but does help me to understand a bit better and to feel slightly less exasperated. What a mess.

Thank you R0wantrees, Dr Julia Long and, of course, pencilsinspace.

I hate that makey-uppy word, misgendering.

Basically this comes down to two tribes.

Some GCs want to be able to freely misgender TW in public.

Other GCs know they won’t get anywhere near the mainstream media or keep their jobs if they openly misgender people.

There is wider important context for women being able to identify male-pattern abusive behaviours which pre-dates discussion about gender identities.

In her 2017 speech Dr Julia Long ( researcher for the femicide census) talks of the importance of naming male violence within the context of feminist theory & history.

(extract)
"So why then is it important to make this distinction between sex and gender and why is it important to name men as men? Naming men as man was such a vital part of the women's liberation movement and feminist scholarship back in those early days. There were lots of books that had 'silence' in the title or essays that had 'silence' in the title because it was about women breaking the silences of our own lives and naming who was doing what to whom, and then seeing that there were patterns of this and that is how feminist theory emerged. So it's really crucial to name men as men because that is how we develop an understanding and an analysis of patriarchy. That's how. If we can't name men as men then we can't name patterns of male violence, we can't name who is in control.

So naming men as men, then, enables us to answer these kinds of questions: Who controls economic, social, political and cultural systems and institutions? In whose hands does this kind of economic and social and political power lay? Well, if we can name men as men then we can see exactly where it lies. And it also helps us to answer the question, who's doing what to whom? And so again, over decades, feminists have answered that question in terms of looking at what we know women are subjected to under patriarchal power relations between women and men: femicide, female infanticide, sex-selective abortion, female genital mutilation, rape, sexual assault, domestic violence, poverty, economic disadvantage, prostitution, pornography, discrimination, objectification - I'm thinking here in addition to all the sex industry, but just the normalised objectification of high heels and make up and cosmetic surgery and all of this stuff - illiteracy - hugely more of the world's poor and illiterate are women rather than men - denial of reproductive rights, exploitation of reproductive and domestic labour ... I mean that was just a kind of quick list off the top of my head. Also, historically we can think about foot-binding, and I think we need to think about things like chest binding in relation to these factors, and also of course, witch-burning, and we've got a nice little example [referring to protesters outside chanting 'burn it down']... fortunately, touch wood, they haven't gone quite that far yet, but in terms of 'kill all TERFs' I think there is certainly echoes of former persecution of women, in terms of the current ... oh, it's gone a bit quiet there ... in terms of the current persecution by our friends outside." (continues)

transcription by pencilsinspace pastebin.com/nGwr3i4U

**copywrite permissions available

I love JCJ, so smart, erudite and funny, although it worries me when she exposes vulnerabilities in a public domain
I agree. A lot of readers had no idea what was going on behind the scenes and tbh this long thread did not really help clear things up for me.

@DrLouiseJMoody

I can't see your tweets. Is that because you have locked down your account or am I blocked for some reason?

It’s a shame so many feminists have turned away from Posie because she is a brilliant media performer.

No doubt there will be some feminists who publicly totally distance themselves from Posie whilst secretly feeling grateful for the way she has shone a very bright light garnering wide media exposure.

I can understand this cognitive dissonance must feel unpleasant.

(Sceptical face wasn’t to Amalfi, we cross posted.)

I’d say though that feminism is political - everything that impacts our lives is political. However it goes far above and beyond party politics and whilst those with political ambition have to work within that structure, many of us have seen how rubbish all parties have been for women.

There are many strands of feminist thought, however I think if it actively excludes a huge group of women for the crime of being right-wing then it isn't feminism, it's (im)purity politics and I say that as an old-fashioned left-winger. I may think your political beliefs are a load of bollocks, you're perfectly free to think the same about mine, I'm not particularly free speech, more STFU wazzock, but if feminism's central driving force isn't women first and ALL women and ONLY women, then it's nothing.

I'm not sure how anyone can bring themselves to be matey with Ramendik, who has to be one of the internet's most irritating people. He's basically feminist Wordpress's equivalent to herpes.

@DrLouiseJMoody
It is a great pity that, for all the talk of distancing, JCJ and Rosa Freedman did not feel the need to do that with Kinesis, a distinctly misogynistic TRA, and RF in particular, has well-publicized friendships with TRAs such as CursedE and Ramendik. Of course, be friends with who you like, but publicly distancing yourself from one group because their politics do not align with yours whilst publicly befriending abusive biological men is demonstrates a sort of hypocrisy that will not go unnoticed.
Well said Dr Louise Moody, I've wanted to point out this massive hypocrisy many times so thank you for articulating my thoughts, in a far better way than I ever could.

And to those who say JCJ didn't go on an epic rant I beg to differ, hours and 12 minutes of pure manure, lies and twisted Screenshots to rally against supposed twisted Screenshots, and 98 tweets, is indeed an epic rant

To be honest, JCJ named the victim of a sexual assault without informing the victim and that is illegal Afaik.

Its also immoral and needs to be condemned by everyone.

Politics in feminism has absolutely no place. Just like men. Supposed feminists throwing women under the bus for a pat on the head from men, however they Id, is anything but feminism. This is not the first time that the academics and those who hang of their every word have done this, nor will it be the last. It reeks of misogny and, classism and pure plain old jealousy.

Until women realise that feminism has no political colour, because both the right and the left will fcuk us over at the first chance they get, then it's useless trying to fight for our rights.

I'm also very aware of the naming of someone and the perpetrator. That is a part of this, and the record was set straight last night. There is also my pinned tweet:

mobile.twitter.com/drlouisejmoody/status/1241455517152808960

Which was interpreted as TRA harassment. It was not. And in light of JCJ naming herself, I'd suggest that the dots can be joined between that, my pinned, and someone else's thread (now deleted) that explained things. If my naming does not mean this thread will be deleted then I will also do that as I'm thoroughly sick of it all. For me and the other named woman (not to mention four more) have this episode resurrected in what looks like an attempt to deflect from pushback over the anon account debate is just unacceptable. We are not part of any bullying, have no issues with JCJ, and woke up to find ourselves named in a 98 tweet thread. Of course I'm bloody unimpressed.

It's also a great pity DrLouiseJMoody that, despite your distaste for JCJ bringing tangental allegiances and disagreements into the public domain with the intent to condemn other women, you're now doing the same.

Honestly, all this infighting needs to stay out of the public domain, esp such dominant forums as Twitter and MN.

Tbf I think JCJ was rather taken in by Kinesis, who was doing a whole "I'm reasonable and willing to listen" act in order to get a free trip round the UK. I will never understand Rosa cultivating a friendship with CursedE, who is a loathsome individual and doesn't bother hiding the fact

It is a great pity that, for all the talk of distancing, JCJ and Rosa Freedman did not feel the need to do that with Kinesis, a distinctly misogynistic TRA, and RF in particular, has well-publicized friendships with TRAs such as CursedE and Ramendik. Of course, be friends with who you like, but publicly distancing yourself from one group because their politics do not align with yours whilst publicly befriending abusive biological men is demonstrates a sort of hypocrisy that will not go unnoticed.

I am getting profoundly sick of the concept of “distancing from”.

Me too, and I'm not doing it. Also note that the expectation that one do so is disproportionately aimed at women.

flomary63 yes I agree re:idealist vs pragmatist although I think it's more political vs not that bothered about politics.

What are INFP and MBTI?

unwashedandundazed I disagree that distancing is the same as 'no platforming'. I don't see that either woman has tried to galvanise momentum to block the other from the public domain or limit their communication channels or audiences tbh.