What is the moral difference between sex work and other forms of work?

So if your knowledge is so superior-show me where it says and under what law claimants can be forced into self employment. You can’t.

On what basis are you assuming that all prostitutes are self employed?

I'm still amazed that despite the multiplicity of topics on FWR in particular and MN in general the only subject exponential thinks is worth posting about is "prostitution is a job like any other"

merrymouse Your knowledge of employment law, specifically the difference between employed and self-employed status, is as sketchy as your knowledge of the sex trade . So if your knowledge is so superior-show me where it says and under what law claimants can be forced into self employment. You can’t.

TehBewilderness I was particularly taken with your assertion that prostituted children are self employed And where did I say this? I did not-so will you retract? I doubt it. RTFT

bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg why is it considered sexual harassment, actionable by HR, if my boss propositions me for sex? He can ask to me to do "any reasonable task" within my competence You answered your own question-it hinges on “reasonable”. If your boss asked you to jump out of the window-which I assume is within your competence-would you do it? If not why not? It is not reasonable and not explicit in your contract.
The prostitute agrees to provide defined (within her boundaries ) defined sexual service for pay. She can withdraw from that contract if the client is smelly, abusive, a twat or other reasons. That is the “contract”
Studies show that in the majority of interactions the prostitute is in control of the interaction (see for instance Kinnell op.cit , also On Our Own Terms: The Working Conditions of Internet-Based Sex Workers in the UK here; Sex work and modes of self-employment in the informal economy: diverse business practices and constraints to effective working here;

secondly sexworkers are self employed and job centres cannot force someone into self employment.

Your knowledge of employment law, specifically the difference between employed and self employed status, is as sketchy as your knowledge of the sex trade.

Don’t know what happened to your sense of proportion.

While you might believe that a prostitute harms both herself and society by her choice (which is disputable) it is nothing like the harm that might be caused to the poor or vulnerable by commercial organ transplantation. Get a grip.

As with organ donation and child labour, the nature of the activity and the imbalance in power between client and service provider make it likely that the prostitute will be harmed or abused.

within my training

I meant "within my competence". I don't need training to run a broom around at the end of the work day.

If prostitution is work, why is it considered sexual harassment, actionable by HR, if my boss propositions me for sex? He can ask to me to do "any reasonable task" within my training including things that are well outside my usual (skilled technical) role such as taking rubbish bags out and basic cleaning, so why isn't giving him a blowjob a "reasonable task"?

So, I mentioned being in Germany for two weeks and experiencing and witnessing more sexual harassment on the street in two weeks than I did in the remaining 50 weeks of that year that I spent in the UK? It turns out that women in the vicinity of strip joints are regarded as valid targets for indecent proposals.

Any law or policy that normalises the purchase of sexual services hire of women's bodies causes an increase in the harassment of women by men.

Prostitution and other forms of "sex work" are not work because no real job increases the levels of rape, street harassment, and sexual objectification of women.

I think the point you are making is that in “real work” experience (e.g. age) commands a premium and so prostitution is not “real work” because age does not.

This is just one of the many things you have been wrong about on this thread.
I was particularly taken with your assertion that prostituted children are self employed. Troll on, troll.

Pro-tip, most women don't orgasm from vaginal intercourse alone and so the size of his tool doesn't matter that much. A woman is unlikely to have written this.

In fact one can definitely experience too much of a good thing when it comes to penis size, which again a woman would know.

Exponential you read that link on previous. Page. To German brothels

Am like dido.

You give off a bad vibe

To contribute to the SAAFE forums you have to prove you are a sexworker

Because everyone on the Internet is who they say they are.

How does one prove on an anonymous internet forum that one is a prostitute? I wasn't aware that prostitutes had unique identifiers issued by their regulatory body in the way say accountants, financial service advisors or solicitors have.

Unreal huge monster knob.

Pro-tip, most women don't orgasm from vaginal intercourse alone and so the size of his tool doesn't matter that much. A woman is unlikely to have written this.

I give a bet that none of the women from Holbeck are on that SAAFE website. To be on such a website, you've got to have the free time to go online and access to a suitable device and have the mental energy to post, which is unlikely if you're being pimped or are addicted to drugs. The women who have the worst experiences of prostitution are the ones we hear from the least, they are the ones most likely to support Nordic Model once exited and TBPH they are the ones I care about because they are the ones getting hurt. The degree-educated belle du jour types with plenty of other options, they can look after themselves.

Athletic guy, super sporty. Firm and muscular. Lives abroad. Unreal huge monster knob. Respectful and quiet. Nice chap. But should I not be paying him

Sorry had to laugh, this is definitely written by a man. Most of them are.
Frankly if they are so good in bed, so respectful and sooo good looking, why would they need to buy sex?

Prostitution is not work because no real job puts the worker at risk of pregnancy.

Prostitution is not work because in no real job do "customers" want service providers to remove PPE and offer extra money for that.

Prostitution is not real work because in no real job do customers deliberately seek service providers out during poor weather in order to secure lower prices. (ibid.)

Interesting question about bodily autonomy-how come it is the woman’s right to choose to do with her body as far as having an abortion-but not ok for her to rent it out?

You've completely misframed those things.

Abortion: It's not OK for the State to force a woman to give life support to a foetus, so abortion should be legal.
Prostitution: it's not OK for men to rent women's bodies and put them at risk of STIs and pregnancy, so the buying of sex should be illegal.

It's not about the woman's choosy-choice, it's about whether the rest of the world views her as a full human being or as a wank sheath or as an incubator.

I would post on gender critical stuff especially the TWAW shit which denies biology but I dont think the Mods would allow it

Oh come off it. I'm not particularly "gender critical" and rarely post on those threads but given the number of such threads clearly posters have no difficulty in posting.

insideandout3 There may be some genuine prostituted posters at exponential's link well first they are not “prostituted” they are prostitutes. To contribute to the SAAFE forums you have to prove you are a sexworker. You should poke around the site a bit to see posts of differing tenor ( see for instance Reasons to be an escort here )

It is often claimed on Mumsnet that prostitutes who contribute to Mumsnet forums who did not describe having a shit time were in fact male fantasists (which is what you are implying)-claims shown to be untrue when Twitter accounts were provided.

There is a spectrum of experiencesin prostitution -you can see that in Mumsnet threads-from the good to dire. Abolitionists like to cite only testimony from “survivors” and present those as typical. It would be more honest to recognise some have ok experiences while others have crap ones.

Dido I'm still puzzled why one would so enthusiastically post on only 1 subject. I would post on gender critical stuff especially the TWAW shit which denies biology but I dont think the Mods would allow it

Well we will have to disagree on whether you are "promoting" prostitution.

I'm still puzzled why one would so enthusiastically post on only 1 subject.

Dido Exponential- what is your interest in promoting prostitution? Apart from one trivial AIBU thread you only post on threads about prostitution I am not promoting prostitution-I am just countering some of the crap arguments put out by abolitionists and their Radfem allies.

My interest was sparked ages ago when absurd claims about the number of trafficking victims were first starting to appear. Back of the envelope calculations showed these figures were implausible-furthermore attempts to find these large numbers of trafficking victims confirmed this.

Then there were the ridiculous claims about the average age of starting prostitution was 13-mathematically impossible-anyone who was a bit numerate could see this.
I then turned to other abolitionist claims and the lack of proper academic research to support such claims. The more I dug into Farley, Raphael, Raymond, jeffreys, Mackinnon , Bindel etc the more crap I found. So when I see crap I call it out.

There may be some genuine prostituted posters at exponential's link, but judging from the first three pages they laughingly read like punter fantasy fulfillment on the subject of "describe your last booking". The responses are curiously centered on how very physically attractive the punters are while they're being generous gentlemen:

"He's a lovely person, pretty good looking and gentle, always put the envelope down before I need to ask, always brings flowers, champagne and sometimes an extra gift."

"My last booking was with a guy who was excellent in bed! I could have kissed him, and I did! He was very nice and got on well."

"My last booking was with this gorgeous bloke in his 40s who was so good in bed I kept thinking "No! This can't be happening! Whuut?" Also when we were just chatting we got to talking about his son and my nephew and nice things like that. Just a really lovely person, good conversation and easy on the eyes."

"My last one was amazing. It's a nice older man I've been seeing for a few months. He's had a few nasty health problems and I suspect depression. He also has a severe porn addiction and had not had Sex for 10 years. For the last few months we've struggled with erectile dysfunction and inability to cum. And this time, both problems were overcome! It was a moment of triumph, I was so happy for him."

"I guess I'm lucky that my last booking was immense fun and I'm still smiling about it. So a new client called up and requested something a little more unusual. Sure... I tell him I'm happy to oblige. Was something I was really inexperienced at so was quite nervous but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Doubt it'll be a booking I'll forget in a while."

"My last appointment last night was with a gent who had been punting since the 80's. We really enjoyed ourselves and I heard some great tales about his punting past. Lovely bloke."

"I've had a few weeks off over Christmas but my last client was so handsome, was a nice treat for myself before Christmas, he was amazing in bed and was wearing my favourite aftershave too."

"arrrhhhh I just had a hottie of a client, too enthusiastic on my part perhaps. Already smitten and already in the phone as 'yep, you want to see him again'. All smiles."

""He's great in bed and quite good looking but young.
I enjoyed it a lot but I don't know what came over me but I went to kiss him 'passionately' like I meant it..then I realised and moved away."

"Tonight I had a client who was probably the handsomest man I've ever touched. The guy was smokin'! Tall, dark, handsome, distinguished... great body, beautiful eyes, perfect white teeth. And, of course, a very nice man."

"Can't get my last booking out of my head damn....oddly Fridays have been ending with a run of good looking bankers in their 30s. Can't get this one guy out of my head"

"Last booking was with a new client, a lovely guy who bought me a box of chocolates. He managed to cum 3 times in an hour so it was quite intense. Said he hadn't had sex for 3 mths although not sure if I believed that. Might have been on V but who cares as he was really nice company. We ran over quite a bit but I didn't mind as I didn't have another booking and was actually enjoying myself."

"Last booking was with a lovely gentlemen-very friendly, great conversationalist (hate the ones that hardly if ever speak, makes it so uncomfortable!) polite, clean and very respectful."

"He was very interested in what got ME turned on instead of just thinking about himself, and used his Hitachi wand on me for a looong time.. definitely going to have to get one of those!!"

"My last booking was with a 26 year old cute fire fighter. Had great sex with him ;D And I got some advice on fire safety tips in my apartment!"

"Athletic guy, super sporty. Firm and muscular. Lives abroad. Unreal, huge monster knob. Respectful and quiet. Nice chap. But should I not be paying him?"

Prostitution can only be practised in a state of pathological dissociation.

Which it's advocates will then describe as empowerment.

Should have said that last para is from the ariticle linked to above

Well I could say I love baiting radfems-but I agree with them on gender issues

For the third time why is the promotion of prostitution the only subject you think is worth posting about?