Scottish Government's Hate Crime bill

Why do they do articles after the opportunity to respond has ended?

Alex Massie's comment in the Sunday Times today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2c472a96-ceb6-11ea-a032-5373319f29c3?shareToken=f67bf692746400df50c5daa2f73540bc

BBC gets it wrong again using gender in place of sex. I feel another complaint coming on...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-53526843

tomororw I'm goign to forward what I wrote to all my 8 mostly useless MSPs ... could not face it tonight. So far after writing regarding the hellacious Gender Boards statutory guidance only 4 have responded 2 of which are Tories....

done! pretty rubbish, but I hope it wasn't too late.

I head the minister in charge on radio 4 news who just flatly denighed that this is the logical outcome of the bill.. Hunza? I'm so underwhelmed by ALL our political processes at the moment.

Haha Fatcat I like that you went for the practicalities! I tried to make the point that free speech should include opinions that don’t match those of whatever ScotGov we have at the time (I think I made quite a hash of it - I prefer a form to an open letter!)
The lack of a decent political opposition in Scotland is to the detriment of us all.

Right well I've sent mine, I referred to fair cop which I had previously missed. I mentioned that rape would be an aggravated crime as it happens to women because you are a women so they should include sex.

I can't think why they don't want to include it now...

me too Gibbons... Ive done it with a mix of the National Secular society and the For Women scotland submission.. not perfect but done. I've pointed out that if this bill passed 1000s of women could be prosecuted under this bill in scotland and we dont' have the court or prison capacity! FOR F'S SAKE! My chance to get into Cornton Vale after demoing outside as a student.... its unbloody BELIVEABLE!

OhHolyJesus
I'm really struggling with this, the more I think about it the more I think hate crime is just nonsense. We should just prosecute for the crimes criminals commit.

This is my frustration too - no murder is better or worse than any other etc

just brewing a pot of coffee before I fill this in - just bumping it up the threads here

Faircop also details some important points, including an outstanding/stalled freedom of speech trial:
www.faircop.org.uk/fair-cop-responds-to-hate-crime-and-public-order-scotland-bill-call-for-views/

Technically submissions should be sent before midnight, but I've heard it's better to get it in before the close of the working day, so like 5pm. Not sure how accurate that is. I do wish they would make these sort of details clear.

I am free this evening, so will spend it writing a response. There isn't an earlier cutoff time is there?

I don't think it's the idea that some people are more special than others.

I think it's the idea that a man walking down a street, say at night, who is beaten up because he is known or perceived to be gay has effectively suffered a greater crime because he wouldn't have been attacked in that instance otherwise. So it will have greater impact because he may feel he has to hide his sexuality.

I chose man because obviously as a woman I am usually in company or in a taxi, oh to feel I would be safe walking at night alone.

I opposed the whole idea of it as it promotes inequality, having as its basis the idea that some people are more special than others and crimes or thought crimes against them should be treated more harshly. It will prompt people to scour social media for comments to use against people they dislike

So sex isn’t covered? Ffs.

Today is the deadline for responses.

I would maybe have a wee look at the Secular Society letter, OhHoly? I ended up using that one, it seemed to make sense.

And yes, 'hate crime' is 'thought crime' by any other name. I suppose the argument is that motivation does matter in our criminal system (intent). But I fundamentally find the whole notion and implementation of hate crimes daft and wrong. As you say, in order to commit any crime one could argue prejudice and 'hatred' is involved. Or contempt, or fury. It's been brought in in a big way, worldwide, though.

I'm really struggling with this, the more I think about it the more I think hate crime is just nonsense. We should just prosecute for the crimes criminals commit.

My brief thoughts for my response include comments on the language used, the fact they omit sex in order to do this later down the line, the thing on age that Scrimp posted, the 'stirring up hatred' and free speech aspects. What have I missed?

I'm tying myself in knots now as an attack on a gay man, for example, is no worse than an attack on a Muslim man, (and there is no hierarchy suggested in the Bill) but an attack is an attack, it's all bad. Is it worse because it's motivated by hate? Surely you would hate anyone you attacked, I mean that would be the point wouldn't it? Does it matter why you hate them? To attack someone because you hate them makes you a not very nice person and yes you should go to jail.

I get that the motivation or 'aggravation' extends the sentence but the sentences should be long enough and serious enough in the first place to dissuade someone doing it again right?

I think an incitement to cause violence is better language. I'm also not sure anyone else should be able to report it either, it's just based on what people do or don't find offensive, the victim may not want to take it any further.

Anyone else slowly going mad...?

Just a reminder tomorrow Friday 24th July last day for submission!!

all done.

Thanks terry this is useful.

They also say they had "additional stakeholder engagement" with:

Soroptomists International;
Outside the Box;
Age Scotland;
Scottish Pensioners Forum;
Scottish Older People’s Assembly;

I presume young people's groups were consulted as this was the Impact Assessment on children/young people.

A cohesive society is one with a common vision

Yes, this looks at first glance quite innocuous, but when I think about it, it's either so vague to be utterly meaningless (our common vision is of a 'good' society, say) or it's bloody weird and yes, chilling. Of course we don't all share a common vision, if we did there would be no need for different political parties!