Liz Truss reveals ‘shocking’ plan to remove healthcare for trans youth, slammed as an ‘extraordinary’ attack on equality - the backlash begins

Am I reading this right? Is a vicar saying that being trans is a bit like... being Jesus now?

I don’t think most people think that people can change sex. Most people in the real world haven’t heard of Mermaids and the people I know still use the term ‘transvestite’ I’ve rarely heard the issues discussed irl and only then In passing with an eye roll and “ “ s .

“Jolly good. Women in their late thirties, with three or more children, are often refused tubal ligation because their doctor refuses to listen to their list of well thought out reasons, and judges that they might come to regret it later. “
Good point

Jesus struggled to recognise his identity as son of God

I know most theology is made up by someone at some point, but this is a complete innovation designed to bend Christian lingo into trans ideology. Even on a strict bible-only viewpoint, the only people who struggled to recognize Jesus identity were his family and his friends. He is quite sure of himself from his first recorded words. Though I'm sure that can be bent into the service of the identity cult, everything can, just as everything is simultaneously transphobic.

I give no shits any more. Believe whatever sillyarse bollocks you fancy. But the line is drawn when you try and enforce compliance on everyone else, same as ever.

So trans people think comparing themselves to someone in a story will strengthen the argument that trans identity is a real thing?

I think my head is going to explode.

We believe that transgender young people should have the same right to make important personal decisions as non-trans people.

Jolly good. Women in their late thirties, with three or more children, are often refused tubal ligation because their doctor refuses to listen to their list of well thought out reasons, and judges that they might come to regret it later.

So let's be sure to give transchildren the exact same rights as grown women, and leave all the important, irreversible, fertility destroying decisions until after the age of 40.

There's a male to female trans vicar who was interviewed on the BBC the other day, and who gave a a sermon on the BBC, and chose to talk about being trans. In the interview, the vicar said that Jesus struggled to recognise his identity as son of God, and that trans people were following Jesus in recognising the importance of discovering their own true identity. You need to recognise your own identity and become who you really are before you can then do other Christian stuff in the community (ok, my words, but I think that was the gist of the vicar's argument).

Post edited by MNHQ

One argument the TRAs have got is that if we don't let kids take puberty blockers etc, the next step will be refusing to let young people have abortions. But the point is protecting kids. You don't protect a girl by forcing her to go through pregnancy and childbirth against her will. You do protect her by not allowing her to get hormone treatment or surgery until she's mature enough to really know what she wants.

My uncle always says about churches of that sort that they aren't against anything but bottled water. I agree there is an element of them feeling embarrassed about different ideas that now aren't so much in line with social consensus. What's interesting about it is parishes that are more reconciled to being out of step are often more popular, and not just with
straight white men either.

Liberal churches are all about 'God is love' where as the traditional view is 'God is Just'

The most vociferous arguments I have had about this away from the intensity of twitter, forums and various other online places, have been with my liberal Christian friends. I don't know whether the psychology is some sort of misplaced atonement for the anti gay stuff in Christianity more widely, but I've been blindsided by cosy liberal church types more than once on trans topics.

But Songs of Praise, bastion of the comfortably nominally Christian middle classes with a veneer of liberalism just had a cosy little puff piece featuring a transman trying to square the circle of being 'in the wrong body' and needing to take opposite sex hormones but created perfectly by an omnipotent loving God

The anglican bishop of Liverpool was in the chamber when the invited speaker from Liverpool Resisters spoke to the assembled council o the subject of single sex spaces. He purposefully sat with the trans lobby, rather than sit himself in a neutral position. He also clapped at the end, with all of the others, after the abusive rant by the leader of the council Joe Anderson.

Most anglicans just want to be respectable, "be nice", do-gooders......sorry to say.....

The Transactivist movement is embedded and determined

Yes! We're looking at least 10/15 years or more.......there are no instant bullets or magical solutions...no matter how much people are looking for them.

And I just want to add, that the perspective of women is the only one that wants that lever.

You can expect endless coverage all from the trans perspective from now on.

Excellent.

And yes, of course, the only weapon in their arsenal is debunked statistics and appeals to emotion. There is nothing else.

And there are enough people now who will start to ask the difficult questions.

How about this, where are the stats for that, show me the studies, what about the science, how about the 70 kids in one school??

This would never have even been mooted two years ago. It's only going one way. And the more people who start to ask, question, challenge, the better. And now they are.

But I completely agree, though, that complacency is misplaced. The lid has been prized open, let's get a massive lever under it.

I am heartened by the comments under The Times recent articles-people are much more in favour of a reality based approach, that respects safeguarding women & girls & not unnecessarily medicalising children.The whole myth of the trans child can be blown out of the water-there is no such thing-just a confused young person who needs to go through puberty & mature, to make sense of their feelings & understand their sexuality. The tide is turning but there are major battles ahead. Can we ever stop males obtaining legal recognition as women?

I agree with FloralBunting. There's a reason why the Trans narrative is told to audiences world wide via personal journeys and why Mermaids want to put up children to tell Liz Truss about their personal story. Because this is the way to manipulate an audience, to silence all opposition and paint anyone challenging the narrative as unkind and uncaring about this brave vulnerable person courageously standing in front of the audience. It means that you don't need to explain science, facts, the rights of others, the law, child safeguarding or anything else. Just tell your own story and everyone will fall over themselves to comply with your demands because you're so brave and stunning.

This will continue to be a main tool used to dominate the narrative.

*FloralBunting

"liberal minded"

Desperate reframing, with alternate facts, alternate realities, extreme emoting and everything knee deep in dramatic hyperbole.

Part of managing this situation politically is the establishment learning to see through this behaviour, not be taken in or intimidated by it and therefore not allow process, standards and policy to be swayed by it, and to do their jobs properly.

Frankly the bigger the behaviour, the kick off, the wildly alternative facts and the opportunity to demonstrate the issues with these highly emotional arguments, the more people will see what the problems are and the stronger the case gets. This has always been an attempt to make individual and highly subjective feelings trump reality, facts, safeguarding, due process and everyone else's rights. That's the whole core of what is wrong with it.

I know a number of liberal minded religious people who believe fully in the be nice, pro trans narrative. I'm not saying not to be pleased with this, but I'm telling you that we have not won yet, because we are fighting a rear guard action against a movement that has been working by stealth for a long time. Yes, the Truss thing is great, but they just had a propaganda piece on national television at a time when more people are at home engaging with this kind of fluffy, emotionally manipulative crap. The push back against Liz Truss was inevitable, as is the continued work the TRAs are doing to undermine material based rights. We cannot afford to think we've succeeded in ending this. The Transactivist movement is embedded and determined.

*FloralBunting
i don't think religious pp believe this. (christian, muslim ect...)

i think we have to make broader church and stand by truss.

Let's be careful here. This is a great thing, and yes, it's astonishing that such a measured statement should elicit such howls of protest. But Songs of Praise, bastion of the comfortably nominally Christian middle classes with a veneer of liberalism just had a cosy little puff piece featuring a transman trying to square the circle of being 'in the wrong body' and needing to take opposite sex hormones but created perfectly by an omnipotent loving God.

They know how to play this, and while the legislative keaps are important, vital even, the propaganda is their strong suit and they won't stop manipulating.

Er stumbledin, the Times, Telegraph, Spectator, Daily Mail have published hundreds of articles in support of women and children.

Women's groups are constantly writing to MPs and ministers, as are many ordinary women. Once the public understand the implications of trans ideology the vast majority are against it, as surveys have shown.

Where have you been? The tide is on the turn, and women have done this with NO money and very little political support, just sheer hard work.