'Blackfishing'

Thank you for saying that @FlyingOink 'Threatens their delusions that white girls are here to breed with to make more white Volk.' I live in Germany and that is still the cultural idea thrown up, that white women should 'breed' and other races, especially black and Asian (strict Muslims) should not have more than 2. Dual heritage (black- white) women may have more so long as they are with a white male to continue the Vaterland bollocks.

Speak up, speak up, speak up @NoAdventureNoTime .

Side note @Freespeecher , I always understood that Rikki tended towards the US black community as they accepted her wholeheartedly with all of her weight. She was allowed to be a plus sized young attractive woman, in the presence of a largely black studio audience. She didn't have to be a blond size zero that all the other talk show hosts, bar Oprah, were touting. She would be described as "safe". She had rhythm, she could dance, she had braids/ extensions at one point, she thrived, and so did her show.

It's interesting that on men it reads as working class and on women it reads as cultural appropriation.

Thinking about i, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say anything about blackfishing or appropriation in person about young working class women I see around who are wearing the clothes and hairstyles that are in fashion among their peers and some might think of as looking "black".

Mostly I hear it about people like KK or celebrities, often in situations where they are in the public eye, photo shoots, and so on. I wonder if that isn't significant.

The guardian are awful. It's almost a waste of energy getting wound up by them because they just can't help themselves.

I agree with NoAdventure though.
I think there's a big difference between a celebrity doing it (to ultimately make money out of it) and what might be called cultural mixing, which honestly goes way back.
The celtic Britons took on Roman dress and names, the Anglo Saxons adopted Viking names and customs. Cultural mixing is a natural thing.
Cashing in for a sale and then moving onto the next cool thing isn't.

it was white men who felt most threatened by it
Makes sense.
Threatens their delusions that white girls are here to breed with to make more white Volk, threatens their assertion that white men are more attractive, threatens their cultural hegemony of EDM and Rock, and it manages to be both dismissive, anguished, misogynist and classist on top of the obvious racism.

Class is a massive factor - working class white boys are getting fades and even perms so they can look mixed race, with edged up hairlines and streetwear. The models in the JD Sports menswear section are around 50% BAME, and young boys want to look like them.
It's interesting that on men it reads as working class and on women it reads as cultural appropriation.

As a student in the 90s I watched a lot of Rikki Lake. A frequent topic was 'our child is a w*gger' (asterisked on the off-chance it's offensive) - white parents would be unhappy their child dressed in 'black' fashions, had a 'black' hairstyle etc. Rikki would duly make her sad face until everyone agreed the kid should be able to wear what they wanted.

Strikes me that, were they to do the same thing today, odds are Rikki would do her sad face until the kid apologised for blackfishing / cultural appropriation.

(Apart from this it was mostly makeovers that heavily favoured the trouser suit).

I do find there are comparisons with this type of blackface with drag although the history of blackface is obviously much more charged.

A friend of my DS is a fantastic self taught MUA, and put a picture of themselves on their Instagram made up as Nicki Minaj, I thought it was in quite poor taste, but an example of their artistry, the person got dog's abuse for the blackface which I agree to an extent was miscalculated but both my son and I noted that no reference was made to the fact that the person is in fact male.

I find this really interesting. I have a lot of feelings about this and not necessarily good ones and it does make me feel very uncomfortable. I found that video really interesting Plan as you say there is a world of difference between reflecting a culture with your own interpretation and wholesale appropriating something else purely for apearance as with Goosefoot's comparison of Beastie Boys and Vanilla Ice.

As a dark skinned mixed race woman who grew up being abused, ridiculed and demeand purely for the colour of my skin it feels (to me) like fetishisation and yes like appropriation when white women go to such lengths to pretent they are another race purely because it is 'cool'

Why are they so stupid?

Just this

Always this

That article. Criticising KK for emulating Diana Ross when she’s doing her Sophia Loren tribute. Does no one look over these things before they are published?

I do think it's strange that it's usually the most culturally powerful and influential group in our society (rich white men) who seem to do the most policing of cultural boundaries and seem most intent on keeping everyone else in neat little boxes. Divide and rule and 'other' anything that might challenge the prevailing world view. I grew up in an area where lots of poorer white and asian girls loved to adopt black culture signifiers. Black people generally embraced them right back - it was white men who felt most threatened by it.

Blackfishing is like a complete make over of hair, jewelry, clothes, plus darkening your skin tone and/or contouring with makeup specifically to “pass” as black or mixed race, usually on social media. (Or instead of darkening skin tone, altering the lighting and filters of the photo so that your skin appears dark). Often, the person will also pick an Africanesqe user name and have captions in American-African dialect to complete the illusion. You’ll find that they even will photoshop the images to give themselves African body features, usually their bum and lips but even changing eye colour too.

That's not what they are describing in the article, though.

Changing someone's skin colour for a photo shoot is just wrong, whether it's to make them look darker or lighter. There's so much cultural baggage and stigma attached to skin colour, it should never be treated as a fashion/beauty statement.

I think there's a difference between adopting styles/fashions from certain cultures and wearing that culture as a costume. It's always going to be shades of gray though. I have to admit I do find the Selena Gomez one a bit weird (mainly because they've darkened her skin) but I also don't like drag which apparently I'm supposed to think is fun and empowering.

Here is my favourite video on YouTube about blackfishing
m.youtube.com/watch?v=_CxF4MALWhQ

Wearing braids or jewelry or clothes or getting a tan is not blackfishing. So many people are missing what it is.

Blackfishing is like a complete make over of hair, jewelry, clothes, plus darkening your skin tone and/or contouring with makeup specifically to “pass” as black or mixed race, usually on social media. (Or instead of darkening skin tone, altering the lighting and filters of the photo so that your skin appears dark). Often, the person will also pick an Africanesqe user name and have captions in American-African dialect to complete the illusion. You’ll find that they even will photoshop the images to give themselves African body features, usually their bum and lips but even changing eye colour too.

Blackfishing is wrong and racist. It is not simply adopting elements into your style in appreciation or to share cultures. It is a concentrated effort to change everything about your social media feed and image to pass as black or mixed race when you are not.

When people take these signifyers and use them as a costume to play with however we'll intentioned

I don’t think it is ‘well intentioned’ or otherwise though.

I find it really pisses me off when anyone takes it upon themselves to try to police what clothes other people wear or how they style their hair.

If we started to see Bollywood films become wildly popular in the west (which has happed a little bit) people are going to be influenced by that, just like they were influenced by Madonna in the early 80s.

That's happening with Japanese culture and KPop right now. All those candy haircolours popular right now have East Asian street style stamped alll over them.

And honestly, braids are just a really practical hair style for many people.

When men adopt women's hairstyles, make-up and dress, we're supposed to admire them and indeed feel sympathy for them because they are so much more hard done by than women. When white women adopt black women's hairstyles, make-up and dress, that's REALLY BAD and CULTURAL APPROPRIATION.

But don't you know the men are brave and stunning? Women are just, well, whatever men say we are.

People seem to intuitively feel like there is a difference between they see as authentic or inauthentic. I'm showing my age here, but there was not the same response to, say, the Bestie Boys, ad Vanilla Ice, and that wasn't just because of the quality of what they did. People thought the latter was taking on a role to make himself seem something that he wasn't, whereas the former were just reflecting what the style and tastes of their peers were. And who trusts someone who is a faker?

Any time a style becomes popular though, it will get taken up by a lot of people, and may be be commercialised. If we started to see Bollywood films become wildly popular in the west (which has happed a little bit) people are going to be influenced by that, just like they were influenced by Madonna in the early 80s. That's not people being fake, just young people (usually) emulating their heroes.

I've not seen the style, so I assumed it was a traditional plaited style one. Or maybe box braids, which are sort of a modern, simplified version (but then much closer to other cultures' braid traditions).

I was born female so my whole purpose in life is obviously to be scolded and told off by unbelievably boring self righteous wankers with too much time on their hands and no grip on reality who think I have nothing better to do than hang on their every decree Wokescolds.

Its just platted hair? All children have platted hair 🤦‍♀️

Thanks NoAdventure, that was a really helpful post. One of the areas where I have a lot of empathy for the "appropriation" argument is the way black people are left carrying all the structurally racist baggage, but are still mined for cool points by people who can take the style off when it suits them. It's like the ultimate code-switching.

Maryland also raises an interesting point. Fifteen years ago when the popular campaign against "chavs" was in full swing, it felt primarily like a repudiation of a combined British urban working class street style heavily influenced by hiphop (high, tight ponytails, massive hoop earrings/jewellery, tracksuits) as much as it was a middle class complaint about about antisocial behaviour. At the time, I thought that a part of the mainstream criticism WAS that white working class people (and Asian people) were taking on black street style, which offended the UK mainstream.

Native american women often traditionally wore their hair in plaits - as we call them here in the uk - and latinas like SG are in large part descended from them. That's what her hair says to me - she doesn't have cornrows or anything particularly african-american inspired.