Dr Adrian Harrop (a trans activist) just asked for screen shots of anti trans statements posted here at MN

I've said this before but when a family member came out as trans on Twitter, and was having vaguely civil chats with TRAs about gender identity etc the first thing they were asked was what their 'gender assigned at birth' was. Everyone is interested in whether you're born male or female, so I don't get the pretence that it's a GC thing.

Off to update my tesco order right now. I know Lurpak is already in there. Just need to check yogurts, update milk etc 👌

God he's so fucking pompous.

I bet they're absolutely gutted

So Arla Farmers can't be in Adrian Harrop's ''gang'?

"Arla is a European dairy cooperative with a global reach. It's owned by 12,000 dairy farmers, around 2,500 of whom are in the UK. Our cooperative roots go all the way back to the 1880s, and our structure means that we work together to create a sustainable long term future for the dairy industry. Our farmer ownership means that all of Arla’s profits go back to our farmer owners, and that the owners take an active part in deciding how we grow and develop our business."

www.arlafoods.co.uk/about-arla/who-we-are/arla-farmer-owned-cooperative/

"it does seem that the narcisssistic aspects of trans activism seem to be going down with the general public like a cup of cold sick at the moment."

I absolutely love this sentence @nauticant

I'm banned from Twitter so they can fuck off anyway but if I wasn't I don't think I could be arsed with engaging with twats at the moment. I have extremely limited patience with narcissistic bollocks at the best of times and if I want to spend time on the internet in these shit times I am spending it on MN, being cheered up by Playmo threads, talking about bread and the lack of flour, looking at photos of cats and cakes, and reading threads like these.

I honestly believe that the days of luxurious thinking that allowed the trans lobby to get a foot in the door has gone. This kind of fanciful thinking is abundant when times are good, when people aren’t dying and when everyone is employed.

Directly the shit hits the fan people get very clear in their thinking.

For most people once immediate needs are met it seems to be leading to a focus on the emotional stuff that really matters rather than the sort of navel gazing that was happening before. So you think about people you haven't seen for a while and wonder if they're doing OK, or you actually pick up the phone and call your family instead of just thinking that you should, or you message an old friend and suggest meeting up once all this is over. It's reminding people of what they truly value, and in most cases "some random on the internet who's always banging on about gender" isn't it.

The fact that the dear doctor received so many tweets challenging and against him and his latest tantrum suggests the wind direction has turned.

From comments on this thread and the AIBU one looks like Arla will see an increase in the sale of their products, unlike Flora who saw a marked decrease in their sales, a lesson to other companies looking on, which they do.

The TRA's widely proclaim Bird's Eye as having dropped MN, however, this like most of what they spout is false. The MN association with Bird's Eye came to a natural end and when Bird's Eye were targeted their response was the single word 'Potato', proving once again that TRA's, facts and truth are worlds apart.

But asking for evidence is a new turn. It means someone, somewhere, is having a think.

And they obviously decided that there was no evidence.

Makes the makers of Flora look a bit daft.

Spectator by Stephen Daisley
'Mumsnet, Flora and the spread of the corporate culture wars'
14 October 2019
(extract)
'There is something endearingly British about Mumsnet’s bloodymindedness. A website that, in theory, should be about the extortionate cost of childcare and moaning that Dear Husband forgot to take the bins out again has somehow found itself in the vanguard of the radical feminist movement. That quirk has now cost the site a partnership with Flora, which severed ties over what activists called ‘trans-hostile posts’ on Mumsnet’s forums. A margarine substitute producer might not be the kind of firm you’d expect to have strong political views but women discussing their sex-based rights on the internet seems to scrape their toast the wrong way. I can’t believe it’s not misogyny.

Here’s what happened. Last Thursday, a Twitter user named Helen tweeted:

twitter.com/mimmymum/status/1182075593887768577?s=20

She had come prepared, citing the Human Rights Statement of Flora's parent company, Upfield. The fact a purveyor of spreadable plant emulsion has a human rights statement covering ‘gender identification or expression’ is highly progressive, though I would settle for a spread that doesn’t turn to mush in the tub after its third encounter with a knife." (continues)
www.spectator.co.uk/article/mumsnet-flora-and-the-spread-of-the-corporate-culture-wars

Arla products from A-Z so we know which to buy

www.arlafoods.co.uk/products-overview/products-a-z/

Like, a rejection of something doesn't mean that you secretly would like to see more of that thing. But male humans often try to spin it that way.

The sheer maliciousness of responding to women saying "we would really rather not have unexpected penis in areas where we're naked and vulnerable" with "those disgusting, perverted women are obsessed with our genitals!" is so telling that you have to wonder why anyone thinks that showing it to people is a way to win them over to the view that the women who are making the perfectly reasonable "no unsolicited penis please" request should be punished. Particularly if the person they're trying to win over is a woman, who will probably have been on the receiving end of the specific form of male pattern harassment that argument resembles before.

So why can Arla see when it’s bonkers and not all the other companies
For one, arla deal in reality. Cows and milk and the actual sex of livestock. For another I dont think they are a huge corporation so people with experience and maybe a few years older than your average big company tweeter are actually using the various social media available.
Cant know for sure but in some multi national corps it's the unpaid woke intern let loose on the soc med. For why who the hell knows?

But you learn something new everyday. I did not know arla was a co-op.
Now I do I will buy more from them.

I would love for other advertisers to copy and paste Arla's response.

It's very interesting that instead of being swayed by emotive accusations of 'transphobia', Arla actually asked for evidence.

The involvement of Harrop would be enough for anyone to dismiss the entire issue, as he is so openly misogynistic. But asking for evidence is a new turn. It means someone, somewhere, is having a think.

And they obviously decided that there was no evidence.

Many people are suspecting that accusations of transphobia are merely a means to shut women up. It only takes one to ask for evidence, and find it unforthcoming. Just one.

Tide turned.

I'm another who is very pleased with Arla's response to this. I use their lactose-free milk and would find it very hard (though not impossible - other brands are available) to boycott.

For context

Arla were one of a few MN advertisers tweet lobbied by 'Dad Trans' (Mermaids), Yeo & Bright Horizens also.

The thing is, it's now becoming widely known - mostly due to the endless, repeated evidence, jumping up and down and shouting about it - that a group involved with this business is unpleasant, demanding, badly behaved with no filters, and largely tilting at windmills. And it isn't MN.

Sometimes they even have to go and build their own windmills to then be able to call them dragons and call for other people to slay them.

Big Steph and the Dr will be fuming this backfired-they are quite delusional and prove the point very well why women need single sex spaces away from crazy males with their male anger issues.

I don't know why common sense and reality recognition isn't evenly distributed NotBadConsidering. At a guess I'd say it relates to the demographics of the target market, the decision makers in the company, and how things are in the particular industry.

Look at IT companies like twitter and media companies like the BBC. It's like they're worried about having an anaphylactic reaction to some aspects of reality. Maybe a company involved with getting staples into the kitchens of people in general has a greater sense that being reality-compliant is a good thing. In contrast, IT and media companies are about creating reality and seem to revel in all this identity stuff.

It was a well written piece I have to say.

I had no idea Arla was a cooperative. I will buy their products instead of the standard stuff during my weekly shop.

That statement from Arla is excellent. Thoughtful and logical and a politely worded way of saying 'fuck off' - not just to the TRAs but to all of this 'cancel culture' pish. I think people are over it, mobs of angry 'activists' trying to bully people into doing their wishes. The more people say firmlyl and politely 'no' to these people, the quicker we can find more sensible ways of attempting to resolve complex issues.

They are also often very averse to anything, sensible or bonkers, that can translate into reputational risk

So why can Arla see when it’s bonkers and not all the other companies?

I can understand why MN would be twitchy, but I’m more interested in trying to understand why some companies see averse risk and pass up access to a huge product to advertise to, and why some see through it and keep on board, like Arla. To me those companies are shooting themselves in the foot for the sake of Dr Misogynist and the Underlings.

The most amazing one is someone saying MN obsesses over genitals and their 'proof' is a screenshot of someone saying that a particular thread was about stereotypes and no one had mentioned genitals

The talk about being "obsessed with genitals" seems all one way from my observations; and it is not coming from women on this board.

The 'logic', if you can call it that, seems to be to suggest that what "makes a woman" is not just genitalia; that suggesting that genitalia is all that makes/distinguishes a woman, is reductive and "anti-feminist". "Women are much more than their genitalia" etc.