Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Just had a blazing row with dd

207 replies

steppemum · 10/04/2020 15:24

So, dd is gender non binary, has changed her name and want sot use them/they pronouns.
This is the end of a long process of about 4 years, she is 15.

I am supportive up to a point (she can call herself what she wants)
But I have gently pushed back against the theory behind it, as I am GC.

We have just had a blazing row. She said that 70% of the victims of DV were men.
From a 'very big and respected men's rights group' that have 'proved' that these are correct and that men's rights don't get any media attention, like the poor bloke who died in Australia at the hand of his wife and she didn't go to jail.

I'm afraid I flipped my lid. Lost my temper and gave a a full force lecture about feminism and the oppression of women. Gave a her a load of statistics about number of women killed every week by their partners, about women begging for help with stalkers who then kill them, about the 2 families in the UK killed since lock down began by the MEN, about how as a women she will face, discrimination, glass ceiling, physical danger, etc etc, because whether she likes it or not she is a WOMAN, and women have faced that since the beginning of time, and so no, my heart doesn't bleed for the poor menz. She said in divorce women always get the kids, so I mentioned all the single mums whose feckless partners bugger off and leave them with no money and no support holding the baby.
She gave me a load more fake statistics from her men's rights group. which she can't name.

I am so so fucking angry. I hate the fucking internet.

So, apart from my crap parenting, does anyone know the men's rights group she may be refering to, and can anyone counter these statistics with facts? Not just police report facts, (they are apparently all biased) but does anyone know how I can dig behind her facts to see where they come from?

OP posts:
MrsGrindah · 10/04/2020 15:41

This is why children should not be offered gender transition of any kind . They are so vulnerable to group think tactics especially via non stop social media. My god when I look back on how I was when I was 15 ..just a mess of hormones , so uncertain about everything . Certainly in no place to make big life decisions. I’m definitely not the same person I was then bit I’m sure as hell still a woman!

Original poster
steppemum · 10/04/2020 15:40

Here's the REAL STORY YOU'RE NOT BEING TOLD' - very attractive to teens!

oh absolutely.

I'm really not proud that I told her when she hits discrimination etc it will be because she is a woman. That wasn't a great moment. But actually, she does need to hear it.

She won't discuss stuff. I challenged something the other week. In a very simple way I said I don't hink that is the whole story and she went off in a stomping temper. She is naturally very non confrontational and won't discuss most things, and was very upset with me today. But I think it has been a long time coming.

OP posts:
Dances · 10/04/2020 15:37

Teenagers are a nightmare and this shit is making it a million times worse.

Do you think she would read a book? Helen Lewis's 'Difficult Women ' gives a very easy to read, and shocking history of the women who had to fight for the most basic rights. Would she listen on Audible? If not, why don't you read or listen to it and then tell her. I think we all need reminding of the fights women have had to put up and this book does it really well.

I'm sure you will get lots of responses here. Remember that teenagers do grow out if it. One of my sons was reading anti women, right wing white for years. I fought him on every occasion and he now says he supports 'my kind of feminism'. To be fair, Lib feminism is so full of holes no wonder it's used against women.

Keep talking to her, she is curious and opinionated. You are not a crap parent either. Keep talking, she is listening, even if she is coming out with crap at the moment

MrsDoylesTeaBags · 10/04/2020 15:34

My guess? Twitter, its a cess pit of MRAs.

I do feel sorry for girls like her, she's lucky to have a sensible mum because she's going to have a rude awakening when reality bites.

popehilarious · 10/04/2020 15:34

I wonder if it's worth a different tack - a more general discussion about how we know anything (!). How would she go about establishing if X or Y was true (something completely unrelated)? Would you devise a test, would you ask someone, how would you decide who to ask? Is there a way that personal bias might creep in to the test design/decision of who to ask (again, maybe use an unrelated example)?

I used to find interesting reading in lists of cognitive biases (things like 'hearing a detailed story by one person is more convincing than e.g. 100 people giving a brief story - one detailed amazon review vs 100 star-ratings, or something similar!)

It might awaken a bit of reflection? Or maybe not at all if she's not a nerd like me :)

Bear in mind she'll have been utterly convinced in her beliefs - so it will take some undoing - particularly if it's "Here's the REAL STORY YOU'RE NOT BEING TOLD' - very attractive to teens!

Original poster
steppemum · 10/04/2020 15:28

she really believes it though.

I have no doubt she is in her room now finding the website to prove it all.

OP posts:
endofthelinefinally · 10/04/2020 15:27

If she can't provide her source and back up the statitics she quotes, she has no argument.