Just had a blazing row with dd

@steppemum I can only imagine how sad & frustrating these years have been

Seriously if you want to know where she’s getting this - my advice would be to get on tumblr. It is full of stuff like your daughter is parroting

I have admitted I am a crap parent by having a go at her. I know that, I said that up front. I said I lost ot and shouldn't have. I don't need to be beaten with a stick any more thank you.

FWIW, I don't believe you're crap for having a go at her or having lost it in the first place, I believe you're a human being.

Do you not think it could cause long term harm if a 15 year old non binary girl is being influenced on the internet by MRA's or by people who have an agenda against women and mothers they call Trfs?

It's very much possible they could be harmful, depending on the specific beliefs they hold, that's why I believe it's worth steppemum evaluating them on those terms as well as examining how these beliefs guide her DDs thought process and actions (it's also possible that they're simply harmless lunacy). Otherwise, I'd have advised that she simply ignore them.

DS did this to me. I asked him for a list of men who had been killed by their partners in the UK in 2018.

I showed him this website:
kareningalasmith.com/counting-dead-women/
I asked why these 'mens groups' hadn't produced a similar site and why I couldn't find any evidence of what he was saying.
I showed him 173 women had been murdered by partners in 2018 and asked, if they represent 30% of the problem, where I could find evidence of the 403 dead men.
He apologised and went on top read "The War on Women" which is utterly brilliant.

Try and engage with her but it is ok to be angry - what she is saying is utter nonsense and you want the best for her.

This has been posted on twitter by dr Jessica Taylor - seems pretty conclusive!

Gronky

Do you not think it could cause long term harm if a 15 year old non binary girl is being influenced on the internet by MRA's or by people who have an agenda against women and mothers they call T**rfs?
It's all well and good to say let her be a child, we all said and did silly things as teenage, but a lot of us weren't influenced by random people on the internet.

alexdgr8 and Elsiebear90 put it much more straightforwardly than I ever could have.

Gronky - I bow to your perfect parenting

I'd rather you considered whether your further actions benefit you or your DD more. I'm not judging you for how you acted, I would have likely reacted similarly, I'm just asking that you consider what you seek to gain by correcting her and how likely you are to get what you want by your chosen method.

She’s 15, I’m sure most of us believed ridiculous stuff when we were that age. I know I did, it’s part of being a teenager, thinking you’re right and everyone else is wrong no matter what the evidence says. Just let her be a kid, of course you should say you disagree with her, but aggressively debating with her as if she’s an adult is unfair and not taking her age and immaturity into account.

but she is a child.
you cannot expect to argue with her as if you were in a college debating society.
whatever she says, just try to calm down and keep an even temper.
could you try saying something like, well i think that is incorrect, you may have been misled by something you read.
i know it is an important, loaded subject. but she is your child, not flatmate, not political opponent. try to shew you accept her with love and gentleness and patience. while making clear that does nor depend on having the same opinions, beliefs. that may change. is bound to. your relationship is constant.

There are some solid statistics here. One in four women will suffer domestic abuse compared to one in six men. Over one hundred women a year are murdered due to domestic abuse, compared to around thirty men. The really chilling factor, is that four hundred people every year go on to commit suicide (They do not mention the men/women split). On average there will have been thirty five assaults before the victim calls the police.

www.lwa.org.uk/understanding-abuse/statistics.htm

The ONS statistics are here.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/domesticabuseinenglandandwalesoverview/november2019

sorry, I think you must be on the wrong thread, as I can't work out how you got any of that from my OP.

You had a 'blazing row' and became further enraged when your DD quoted some incorrect statistics. Now, you're looking for facts to present her with. I could understand the urgency if she's actually harming herself by holding incorrect beliefs but, otherwise, how does this help her development?

Subservience (what does that even mean in this context) and winning don't come into it. having some actual factual information for her does.

Subservience in the sense that you're aggressively lecturing at a 15 year old for being wrong. I really do understand why it makes you angry but it doesn't seem like positive parenting to continue with the topic unless her not being corrected will cause her significant long term harm.

Not taken seriously by an overwhelmingly male judicial system? Why does she think that might be? Genuinely ask her why she thinks men don’t take it seriously - it’s an opportunity to maybe get her to think about gender stereotypes & patriarchy

You're not a crap parent, this awful stuff is all over the internet and it is just brainwashing. The only way I can really think to counter it, would be to get your dd to read and watch videos etc from other sources. I don't know how you can make her do that though, and I suspect the more forceful you are, the less she will listen. It must be hard, I'm sorry.

I often think of my brother who is very slim, similarly built to me and about my height. He's a
smoker, a drug addict, he drinks way too much so he's completely unfit. He can (and has) done a lot of damage to me with his fists despite the fact we are about the same size and I'm in much better shape than him. The average man is just phsyically stronger (in arm strength at least), than the average woman. I find that fact very hard to ignore when talking about domestic violence.

This from refuge.org.uk Crown Prosecution Service data shows that 93% of defendants in domestic abuse court cases are male, and 84% of victims are female. So if 84% are female 16% are male. I'm trying to find the info but I heard on a radio discussion ages ago that a significant % of male victims are in same sex relationships.

“... 43% of high school boys and young college men reported they had an unwanted sexual experience and of those, 95% said a female acquaintance was the aggressor, according to a study published online in the APA journal Psychology of Men & Masculinity®

So i found this retweeted on the fathers for justice twitter.
twitter.com/PhilMitchell83/status/1248585723571249152

It's not hard to find MRA nonsense on any platform but the important thing is how and why is she getting this information?
I know most on this board have been saying for years that it's a MRA movement but are they now influencing young teenagers?
A case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
If a young person believes anyone who questions gender is a t**f wouldn't it be easy for them to believe anything else negative said about women regardless of the source?

Have you thought about cancelling her phone contract? And then limiting her access to wifI? Tell her she can get it all back when she stops acting like an arse.

I’d have flipped my lid at such horse crap.

She’s been tumblr washed

I’m not surprised you flipped your lid OP. It is completely enraging

She has the % flipped - not even mankind claims its 70%

fullfact.org/crime/are-third-domestic-abuse-victims-men/

As you said, she's 15. You're not a crap parent if a 15 year old doesn't share an exact copy of your beliefs, factual or not. Ultimately, I would recommend evaluating how harmful her holding her current beliefs are in the short term and weighing that against how having subservience beaten (metaphorically, I imagine and hope) into her will impact her development. She's clearly a strong willed (non binary) young woman which, holistically, is quite positive in my mind.

On a personal note, I understand that it's emotionally challenging but you shouldn't be looking to 'win' an argument with your DD for the sake of 'winning', no matter how factually accurate your beliefs are. Her having those beliefs may not make you a crap parent but I feel strongly that forcing her to share yours (for the purpose of simply 'winning') does.