Just had a blazing row with dd

I hope @steppemum comes back. You're not a bad Mother, in fact teenagers can tend to need reminding that you are a fully actualised person with your own feelings and thoughts. You've probably shocked her by feeling so strongly about this, and made her think twice.

Maybe ask her to find all the articles she can relating to domestic violence since lockdown began...

Commiserations, OP, you’re between a rock and a hard place.

Can I suggest a different tack? Don’t try to explain to her what the reality is. The reality is self evident to anyone who isn’t trying to con themselves or others. Try to find out from her why she is so determined to believe these lies. Yes, she’s been brainwashed by internet crap, but she has chosen to seek this internet crap out.

There is always a reason for people to be in denial, and there’s a reason why she is. Perhaps it’s because it’s easier to live with these lies than with the truth that despite the advances of feminism, misogyny is still ingrained in our society and women are still second class citizens in so very many ways, whatever our status in law.

Can you put the focus on listening to her? Ask her why she wants to believe this, what she gets out of it, how it makes her feel? Maybe it gives her an illusory sense of power, a sense that she has more control than she actually does in this fucked up world we live in. Women hurt men more than men do women, yay, I’m safe after all!

And it wouldn’t hurt to spell it out, as often as is necessary, that you are guided first and foremost by a desire to protect her, keep her safe in a world that is often dangerous. And not by some gratuitous need to control her, as it can often seem to teenagers.

Why does she want to believe this? Are there ways she doesn’t feel safe? Are there other worries she has that are feeding into this? How did she deal with puberty, what changed for her? Fitting in with her peers is obviously huge and it’s clearly very worrying that all her peers are subscribing to the same bullshit, so it’s going to be very hard for her to drop it; but the more you listen to her and try to find out what lies beneath this particular “teenage rebellion”, the more she will be free to start using her own critical thinking.

Apologies if someone has already linked to this, but even the Mankind Initiative (an organisation that is obviously very pro-men) has statistics showing that women are far more likely to be the victims of domestic abuse:

www.mankind.org.uk/statistics/statistics-on-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse/

If you dont want to directly challenge her beliefs perhaps just show her this website of teenage boys competing in sports against Olympic female medallists.
boysvswomen.com/#/

(Sorry, dont know how to make clicks link on my phone)

When I read it, and read every single race, it was absolutely stark to me the physical differences between men and women (and if you extrapolate that.....)

Spoiler alert, aside from the one or two long distance races, every single race was won by teenage boys - against Olympic females medallists - and in a lot of the races, the Olympians would'nt even have qualified for the teenage boys races. Now tell me that males do not have a physical advantage over females starting from their teenage years. And yes, some men will use that physical advantage against women...

Heyduggee that’s great. Make her look at sites critically and talk to her about manipulation, fake news, lies, statistics and propaganda. Talk about journalism and ethics and let that sink in.

Op if she was born a male and coming out with this, I don’t think you would have had the push back on here.

Parenting isn’t pretty. Sometimes you have to fight the good fight.

You can also point out that many of the men that suffer domestic abuse are in same sex relationships.

Also show her the stats for violent crime in general and ask why domestic violence would be different given it's a one on one situation and men are stronger.

What I would concede is that women can be just as unpleasant and emotionally abusive as men but that because men are physically stronger and not left vulnerable by pregnancy and childbirth (also financially) they are often in the more powerful position to enact abuse.

I think that losing it, showing you're human, with knowledge and passion isn't a bad thing occasionally helps - maybe not immediately, but she's going to remember that (probably for the rest of her life

Very true. I still cringe with shame about the time I casually called my mum a hag aged 12 on the way to school. She was still upset with me after school, which was so out of character it really made me think about what I'd done. Sorry mum.

This from wikipedia:
In relationships without reciprocal violence, women committed 70% of all violence.

Is there a source please?
Wiki will be quoting a finding from a particular study. Its important to be able to identify it, understand the context, terms of study etc

I like that heyduggee, going to stick it on the fridge!

* ..*when the biggest argument I had with my parents was whether the Beatles were as timeless as Mozart..

I LOVE arguments like that. (Mozart rules btw.)

Encourage her critical thinking skills about everything she is reading, seeing, being told (including by you). It's a great skill and I love this resource.

I do wish it was like the early 90s, when the biggest argument I had with my parents was whether the Beatles were as timeless as Mozart. All this gender shit just fucks with vulnerable minds.

Bother missed out link:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2019#how-were-victims-and-suspects-related

I found this on the Office for National Statistics website, Horseradishfeminist. 38% of women killed by a partner or ex partner, 4% of men. I don’t think the ‘partner’ information is separated by men and women (but have not downloaded dataset). Even if there are no men partners included in that 4%, the discrepancy is still enormous.

I was really embarrassed at the time and wasn't sure what to think but it definitely stuck with me how upset my mum was about this.

I think that kids, especially about that age, do pigeonhole parents - especially mum - as olds who know nothing and don't understand. I think that losing it, showing you're human, with knowledge and passion isn't a bad thing occasionally helps - maybe not immediately, but she's going to remember that (probably for the rest of her life - there's a couple of arguments with my mum from that age I'll never forget), and it will prey on her mind, it will niggle at her and hopefully eventually open the door to critical thought and more research rather than blind acceptance.

Ah...

Just seen kit's post.

Message to self - read threads properly before jumping in!

I've heard that two women die at the hands of their partners each week in the UK.

Does anyone know how to find out the equivalent figure for women killing their male partners?

Surely that would be a more reliable comparison? Hard to hide deaths.

Also - sadly I think that as she grows up she will see from personal experience how DV disproportionately affects women. I was 16 the first time I saw a woman getting attacked by a man (outside my bedroom window in the middle of the night, my dad rang the police). I was 19 the first time one of my friends told me her boyfriend had hit her. Unfortunately there have been many more stories since then.

I don't think it's that big a deal that you lost your cool. I had a similar experience with my mum in a restaurant when I younger. My brother was doing the whole "sex work is work", "you're stigmatising sex workers" bit and my mum lost it. I was really embarrassed at the time and wasn't sure what to think but it definitely stuck with me how upset my mum was about this. I think I already knew deep down that this whole "sex work is work" thing was wrong but it made me question it much more. Same with my brother who has now completely changed his tune.

LoLeater, much as I understand your frustration with your daughters, I find this but so many young women have grown up not seeing the reality that was experienced (and is still experienced) by women something to celebrate. It breaks my heart to hear of women who have had miserable childhoods because of their sex.

Thing is she's 15 and all 15 you know better than their parents!

Also going off at her, we're all stuck in together at the mo which is not great for anyone.

At 15 it's normal to want to get away from parents and be out with friends etc.

I understand you're pissed off. But I honestly think it would be best all round of you tried to drop it. Of course she's spouting bollocks but she probably won't listen to you.

You could say, where did you get that info, can I read it, I'm interested as it seems to go against what I thought etc etc and take it from there?

She's going to be mad as hell when she finds out she has been lied to.

Get her Caroline Criado Perez’s book - Invisible Women- Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men .

I think the Karen Ingala Smith links posted by WomanDaresTo are really important. It is rare for a man to be murdered by his female partner. Sadly, as the femicide census shows, most women are murdered by a partner or other close male relative.

I also think that financial abuse is rarely spoken about except in relation to people with dementia etc but there seem to be so many posts on here from women for whom it c fit the criteria have no money of their