Just had a blazing row with dd

I wonder if any of the commenters have actually met a trans or NB person or just have a mental image of a middle aged bloke in a dress and wig sneaking into women's changing rooms Trust mumsnet eh

@R0wantrees You are thinking of gender and sex as the same thing by saying that all adult women are women whatever length of hair etc. Yes they are biologically women but also their gender (women) matches their sex (women). What is so hard for you to understand that you can be biologically male but a woman by gender. I understand as people who don't face this it's hard to get our head round but it does happen so can't we just accept it.

Maybe I explained it badly but another way of looking at it is you see someone walking down the street and know they're a woman because of their features, clothing hair length or whatever. NB people don't want to be recognised as a man or a woman, I don't know why but they just don't. It doesn't matter what their sex is. And then there's trans people who do want to be recognised as a gender, but not the gender that matches their biological sex. This isn't to say that to be a trans woman a biological man must wear a wig and a dress, because female gender doesn't equal long hair and a dress because we are all individuals!

Mumaof0

Could you please not @ me?
Im here on the thread & reading (it sends an email every time)

Mumaof0

terfisaslur.com/

To us as cisgender

I don't have a gender.

My gender was not assigned at birth by a sorting hat 🙄🙄 my sex was observed & recorded

Ok then, let's replace that word with transphobia. 'Protecting' women by hating trans people isn't feminism. If you don't like trans/NB people just pretend they don't exist because they're not going anywhere.

False generalisations arent conducive to civil discussion either.

Have you actually read the OP post?
Arent you concerned that girls are being misled by MRA online sites about the sex-based incidence & pattern of abusive behaviours?

@R0wantrees Honestly what harm is going to come to you from just letting people express themselves as they wish. Whether it's their gender or sexuality

@R0wantrees Yes the law protects all citizens eye roll including those protected groups. Don't really see why it's relevant to say all citizens but hey ho

@R0wantrees Why are you speaking from the perspective of a NB person? They don't conflate gender and sex, NB has nothing to do with sex it's about gender presentation. To us as cisgender (dont get offended cis is a latin word and only means same gender as assigned at birth) we can't expect to ever understand it so the best we can do is support?

Honestly thank god the law protects trans NB and all LGBTQ groups.

The law (rightly) protects all citizens.

Many people & organisations have been mis-advised that 'Stonewall Law' represents the actual law.

Also non binary is about gender not sex. To understand it I think you have to see these two as separate. Gender (how long girls have their hair, what they wear etc) is not biological.

People who are non-binary conflate sex, gender & gender identity.

Women are adult human females regardless how long or short their hair & regardless what clothes they wear.

People should be free to wear & style themselves as they choose. Plenty of people have been gender non-conforming for decades.

Pronouns in English refer to the sex of beings eg "my cat is called Sam, she is black"

Women's spaces & services are intended to be sex based for safety, privacy & dignity.

The OP's daughter is clearly being influenced & given innacurate information by MRAs & TRAs online.

Adults have responsibility to Saefguard children (under 18) as well as Vulnerable Adults.

Honestly thank god the law protects trans NB and all LGBTQ groups. I am a cis woman and don't claim to understand the feelings of people who are NB or trans but could never not support them when they are so hated by society for wanting to be themselves

'Terf' and 'cis' are treated like slurs how ridiculous is that. No one is questioning our right to be women. Outrageous in 2020 that trans excluding feminists are protected as if they're a minority in the same way that trans or other LGBTQ groups are. To me that's like treating homophobes equally to gay people.

@R0wantrees Ok then, let's replace that word with transphobia. 'Protecting' women by hating trans people isn't feminism. If you don't like trans/NB people just pretend they don't exist because they're not going anywhere.

All I'm seeing is a lot of HATE disguised as 'feminisim', guess what, women AND trans people can both be oppressed at the same time. For different reasons

Mumaof0 You may be new to the FWR board & unaware of additional rules.
Calling the 'OP' a 'terf' is not considered conducive to civil discussion.

info here:
www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy

And cis means identifying (calling yourself) a woman for example if you were born a woman. Trans means calling yourself a different GENDER to the gender that matches your sex. Gender is a made up concept, sex isn't. So cis isn't sexist and has nothing to do with gender stereotypes it's about which gender you call yourself. Hence why you can get butch lesbian more masculine trans women (born a man but call themselves and therefore identify as a woman, and may have physically transitioned or had hormone treatment)

Every girl is not like other girls imho. We are all unique. It doesn’t make us any less a woman.

Every girl has being female as a shared characteristic. Being of the female sex means specific differences to those who are male.
All girls (providing they survive childhood) become women.

A female child cannot 'identify' out of her sex.

In so far that 'non binary' might mean not conforming to every sex-based stereotype & role then we are all unique NB indiduals (though not plural)

Demanding/cajoling/coercing other people to change established pronoun useage is rude IMO.

Oh dear, Plan. You have spectacularly missed the point. To simplify the arguments:

Genderists:
Only women and girls like pink! Therefore all people who like pink are women or girls.
Only men and boys like blue! Therefore all people who like blue are men or boys.
Or there’s this weird shit we tacked on the end that says if you like pink AND blue you’re neither a man nor a woman, you’re NB!

FWR:
All the above is bullshit. Some women like pink, some like blue; some men like blue, some like pink; some men and women like both pink and blue; some like neither. And it’s all ok!
And whether you like either colour or both or neither has NO BEARING on whether you’re a man or a woman, because being a woman or a man is just a simple matter of biology. And anyone who says otherwise is just trying to perpetuate regressive gender stereotypes.

No need for absurd made-up categories like NB because guess what? We’re ALL special!!! Each and every human being is entirely unique. Miraculous. Marvellous. Ain’t life grand?

I'm sorry OP. It bloody stinks. I posted about my DD aged 15 and I have a blazing row, about 8 years ago. It hurts so much when they don't see what tripe they've swallowed.

Anyway I want to say that for the next 6 years gender was an absolute no-go for discussion in my house. all the family agreed it was too inflammatory.

Then last year, she's now 21, she spontaneously said to me that she'd "come round to my way of thinking" and she was grateful for how I gave her the facts then let her think things through herself. I can't tell you what a balm for the soul that was to hear. Stay calm if you can and maybe move the topic off the table for the next 5 years

And who think/ say the ones who don't conform to sterotype are not 'real women'.

And it's usually men who make that call 'she looks like a man ha ha ha'.