Rory Stewart says 'male prisoners self-identified as females and raped prison staff'

As far as I know the prison service don't have to put any transwomen in women's prisons. The exceptions, even with a GRC, make it perfectly possible to segregate on the basis of sex.

They are choosing not to.

So there are 4 men with no GRC in women's prisons. There are an unknown number of males who have a GRC (making them legally female) in women's prisons

So presumably those attacks would he included in the 117 "women on women" attacks?

So the attacks on prisoners and staff can be done away with technically thanks to regulations regarding reporting?

Women’s prisons had 34 transgender inmates in April 2018, 30 of whom were born female. Prison Service statistics do not include those prisoners born male who have already legally changed sex.

So there are 4 men with no GRC in women's prisons. There are an unknown number of males who have a GRC (making them legally female) in women's prisons.

The GRA was written in a way that made it a requirement to obscure the sex of someone who had a GRC in most situations. Did nobody in parliament at the time recognise that allowing men to become women (in a legal sense) and making it impossible to distinguish between them and actual women might be a problem?

That article is torturous. The language just serves to obscure. And the stats still don't include anyone with a GRC. Which I don't understand. You don't have to name the individual, so the privacy issue is irrelevant.

It's absolutely scandalous that mangling the meaning of words is serving to damage women everywhere.

Incarcerated women are being housed with male sex offenders as part of their sentence. And male sex offenders, including rapists, are being given access to incarcerated women as part of their sentence.

It's horrifying misogyny.

Times article:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/da7876a4-92d6-11ea-b833-0d83599da676?shareToken=9e0b5ace3ca8fc964e30a0f16673ee0d

The Times have covered this today-thankfully

Really interesting points.
I can never get past the fact that male sex offenders who claim to be women get all this special attention. Do all the other prisoners with protected characteristics get special meetings involving pressure groups to ponder on their identity and prison placement? I doubt it.

It's a spectacular example of regulatory capture and - given the latest evidence which as others have suggested is likely to be a significant underestimation - evidences just how unfit for purpose the MoJ is when considering the safety of women prisoners.

I've been asking my MP to ask an urgent question at PMQ about males being locked up with women, but getting nowhere-its simply not good enough though. Would love to push this issue forward forward but really don't understand why prison governors aren't taking a stand.

I wonder if a judge would rule it lawful?

Good question. Could it be taken to Judicial Review? (I have no idea how these things work).

Oldcrone, that policy doesn't take the EA 2010 into account does it. They are allowed to do otherwise because even if the prisoner has a grc it's possible to treat them as male if there's a legitimate need (there is) and it's proportionate (it would be if wherever they were housed was safe for them). So they are choosing this rather than doing what the law says they have to do. I wonder if a judge would rule it lawful?

Link to prison transgender policy.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/863610/transgender-pf.pdf

4.64 The Gender Recognition Act 2004 section 9 says that when a full GRC is issued to a person, the person's gender becomes, for all purposes, their acquired gender. This means that transgender women prisoners with GRCs must be treated in the same way as biological women for all purposes. Transgender women with GRCs must be placed in the women’s estate/AP unless there are exceptional circumstances, as would be the case for biological women.

All prisoners entering prison who identify as trans are supposed to have a meeting within 7 days to discuss where to place them. I doubt these are being counted.

The ones who have a GRC are automatically placed in the prison corresponding to their 'acquired gender'.

incidentally I just read this peach of a sentence

www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmiprisons/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2019/06/2019-Foston-Hall-final-report-.pdf

Good practice
2.26 Prisoners with relevant knowledge and expertise could deliver training to staff on transgender issues, which was a positive way of raising awareness and developing trust.

Did they have any prisoners with relevant knowledge on being sexually assaulted deliver training to staff? Or is it only male-bodied prisoners who identify as female who get to lecture staff? I mean WTAF

they lie. what is a 'request'? All prisoners entering prison who identify as trans are supposed to have a meeting within 7 days to discuss where to place them. I doubt these are being counted.

Yet figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act show increasing numbers of trans prisoners are being allowed to move to women's jails. In 2018, seven requests were made and fewer than five were granted. Yet last year 14 requests were made and, of those, seven were granted.

Fourteen requests seems very low.

Last year it was reported that 1 in 50 male prisoners identified as trans, rising to 1 in 10 if they were from the travelling community.

What benefit is it to these men to not ask to be transferred, that only 14 out of an estimated 1500 is doing so?

However, even Fair Play For Women - a source I trust considerably more than Rory Stewart and The Sun put together - makes no mention of any prison staff even though it does refer to the assaults on female prisoners by Karen White.

Fair Play for Women has nothing that any random on the internet can't find using Google. Rory Stewart, The Sun, etc. OTOH may well have unpublished information about sexual assaults.

Regarding the actual details, it's stated that offences by transgender individual took place at

Peterborough (? known transgender offenders here include paedophile Michelle Lewin www.pressgazette.co.uk/sun-and-mail-online-acted-in-public-interest-by-reporting-convicted-sex-offenders-gender-change-ipso-rules/)
New Hall (Karen White)
Low Newton (?)
Bronzefield (? - home of transgender rapist Jessica Winfield www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39337805)
Foston Hall (?)

And how many other cases were omitted that we don't know about? Having managed to 'forget' about a case which was all over the newspapers I don't think we can trust the answers they're giving now.

I agree. If their method of counting enabled them to omit one particular case (which, as you said, was all over the newspapers), how do we know they're not omitting others? I would really like to know how they compiled those figures.

Yes, I'm not sure why Rory Stewart isn't being asked by newspapers to clarify his position given that the government insists there has been nothing against prison guards. Although how the government can conveniently 'forget' to include Karen White until they were pulled up about it is a mystery. What else have they left out by 'accident'? And are assaults by trans prisoners with a GRC classed as part of the 'female' stats?

Yet figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act show increasing numbers of trans prisoners are being allowed to move to women's jails. In 2018, seven requests were made and fewer than five were granted. Yet last year 14 requests were made and, of those, seven were granted.

Lots of men starting to discover their inner ladyhood I guess.

Can no one actually hold Rory Stewart to account to what he said? It’s incredibly important to establish whether what he said is true or not. Unfortunately I do think he has a tendency to fabricate/exaggerate on occasions - I don’t think this is news to anyone who has followed him. But he was after all in a position to know (as prisons minister) so why can’t he clear this up? It’s incredibly frustrating.

But incredibly, the initial response omitted the White case and was only corrected after The Mail on Sunday intervened.

And how many other cases were omitted that we don't know about? Having managed to 'forget' about a case which was all over the newspapers I don't think we can trust the answers they're giving now. And were there actually assaults on prison staff as well that they've decided not to disclose in the hope that nobody finds out about them by other means?

Parliamentary response has been updated to include New Hall prison / Karen White. The total is now 7 sexual assaults on female prisoners in England and Wales. They still maintain there were no assaults on prison guards.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8303753/Transgender-inmates-carried-seven-sex-attacks-women-jail.html

This is all very strange. The Parliamentary reply to Baroness McDonagh does not list New Hall prison, which is where Karen White was held, according to several newspaper reports.

If Karen White has a GRC it would explain the omission of his assaults, although the newspaper articles imply that he doesn't. But the rules around disclosure of whether someone has a GRC might just mean that the papers can't mention it.

The main purpose of the GRA appears to be to put women in danger and for it to be impossible to discuss this. It should be repealed.

It is strange. I absolutely do not agree with locating transwomen in women's prisons and the decision to allow Karen White admission to HMP New Hall was frankly insane. However, even Fair Play For Women - a source I trust considerably more than Rory Stewart and The Sun put together - makes no mention of any prison staff even though it does refer to the assaults on female prisoners by Karen White.

Some clarification from Rory would be welcome but I don't think he does clarification somehow. He says what he says and moves on. That's not helpful to anyone.

This is all very strange. The Parliamentary reply to Baroness McDonagh does not list New Hall prison, which is where Karen White was held, according to several newspaper reports.

This article from Nov 2018 says "The lag, born David Thompson, sexually assaulted two female prison guards during his sentence for raping two women".

An earlier article from September said "A transgender lag carried out four sex attacks at a women’s prison while on remand for rape" and goes on to say that White "admits two sex attacks at the jail between September and November 2017. A judge ordered the remaining two to lie on file."

So it looks like White was convicted of two sexual assaults at New Hall and two others (on prison guards?) were not prosecuted.

Yet none of this info showed up in the answer from Parliament. Are both the newspaper articles and Rory Stewart mistaken?

I have said this on other threads.

I like Rory Stewart. He is very entertaining and I am quite sure that he believes what he is saying at the exact moment he says it but his history of being creative with the truth is a matter of record.

On the other hand, I don't much like Steve Gillan, General Secretary of the Prison Officers Association, but on the basis of dealings I've had with him in the past, I do respect him. He is uncompromising in his duty to protect his members and if a transgender prisoner had attacked a female prison officer, he'd be raising Cain and he wouldn't care who he upset in the process. On this matter, he has been silent and that would be uncharacteristic of him...unless, of course, there was nothing to tell.