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Original poster

Covid-19 and purity spirals

684 replies

DreadPirateLuna · 09/04/2020 13:54

Covid-19 is a very serious illness which threatens our most vulnerable and risks overwhelming the NHS. We should all do what we can to flatten the curve and save lives. People whose behaviour risks lives (e.g. urban residents traveling out to holiday homes in rural communities) should face criticism and sanctions.

However, I can't help feeling that some of the outrage at some behaviours is less about reducing the spread and more about getting caught in a "purity spiral".

Take all the outrage about people in parks. Fresh air and sunshine is good for physical and mental health, it improves the immune system which is particularly important during an epidemic! Many urban residents have no other source of open space except the local park. The ability to get outside can be lifesaving for victims of DV. Risks of contracting disease are very low if you keep your distance from others outside your household.

Yet I've seen photos of walkers and family groups in parks, keeping far away from others, but accused of selfishness and killing the elderly and disrespecting the NHS. Parks in London have been closed, meaning more congestion of other areas and residents confined to homes, which is damaging for reasons outlined above.

And it's usually (though not exclusively) women and esp mothers who get blamed. Those selfish Karens and their broods.

A more sensible solution would be to allow restricted access to the parks. Maybe allow only locals in nearby flats without gardens. But it seems we're not doing sensible these days.

OP posts:
Notpanickingjustyet · 09/04/2020 16:49

My husband works around parks and towns etc. Yesterday he said he'd never seen the park so busy, sunbathers, cyclists, runners etc.
I don't think it's ok. People have a choice, some don't and still have to mix with the general public.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 09/04/2020 16:34

No one could think that cramming 3000 people into a park, even if they were two metres apart is ok.

For a start off, research is coming out now showing that two metres may well be insufficient and that coughing and sneezing propel the virus much much further than two metres. Secondly, when have you ever sat on a crowded beach or park and not had anyone walk across your blanket or bump into you or kick a ball into you.

I don't see how you can try and claim health risks to staying indoors. Long term sure. Not for just a few weeks.

Original poster
DreadPirateLuna · 09/04/2020 16:24

In many of the photos I saw, people were obeying rules (keeping more than 2 metres apart, except for couples and families who already share a household), but there was still outrage.

There are real costs to restricting open air access, and some of these will make the epidemic worse rather than better. Poor health due to shut-ins means people will be more susceptible to the virus. Shutting parks mean some people will gather indoors instead, which can't be policed, thereby increasing rates of transmission.

Some people seem to be under the impression that if we're all good this will end in a month. It won't. We will have to live with restrictions for at least a year until a vaccine is approved. These restrictions need to be reasonable ones, not ones that just satisfy our need to "do something" while making the situation worse.

I have a garden and a medium-sized house, so my family can cope. Others are not so lucky.

OP posts:
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 09/04/2020 16:06

A more sensible solution would be to allow restricted access to the parks. Maybe allow only locals in nearby flats without gardens. But it seems we're not doing sensible these days

Well, ye, but sadly many people proved that left to their own devices they weren't capable of being sensible, didn't they? Hence the crowds at the beaches and national parks, the 3000 in a London park this weekend and so on.

2Rebecca · 09/04/2020 16:03

It's been mainly groups of teenage boys that I have seen flouting the no mixing from households rule. Some people get overly worked up about the regulations and don't seem to think anyone should leave the house ever where as we need fresh air and exercise , and older people who aren't in the extremely vulnerable shielding group need to keep walking to retain their muscle mass so they don't become frail and at risk of falls and fractures.
Most people near me are being sensible.
I've heard about the Karen insult but not seen it anywhere apart from on mumsnet and Twitter and there it's people complaining about seeing others use it.

VikingVolva · 09/04/2020 15:56

You're not being allowed out for fresh air and sunshine but for exercise (walk/run/cycle only, no games) and you do not need to be in a green space for it, just anywhere outdoors.

Unless you are proposing a wholesale change to the lockdown rules, then intermittent park closures are inevitable because of frequent breaches. At least one London borough is appealing to people not to travel to them, so that local people can use their local park, but they will close if people do not heed the warning.

There is so much criticism floating around of walkers, cyclists and runners who are not breaching lockdown; it's hardly surprising there is even more of people who are in large groups, sunbathing, etc.

You don't actually need to be somewhere pretty to exercise, you don't even need to be outdoors.

If people cannot follow the guidance (and some people seem to be hellbent on nitpicking and carping and whatabouting) then further restrictions may well become necessary.

DJLippy · 09/04/2020 15:47

What an interesting perspective I'll be sure to look out for this

Gronky · 09/04/2020 15:42

I think it's an understandable (though unreasonable) sentiment; the current restrictions feel something like a group punishment and the longer they're ignored, the longer they'll last. People are suffering in a myriad of ways so are more likely to lash out when they perceive that others are prolonging their suffering with transgressions.

I wouldn't class it as a traditional purity spiral, though there are commonalities.

MissBax · 09/04/2020 13:59

I agree with you that there should be an easier way to manage people going out, such as issuing passes to those living in flats etc. However I also accept this will be very difficult to put in place and police. It's so difficult and I feel so sorry for those living on top of each other at the moment with no outdoor space.