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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Covid-19 and purity spirals

684 replies

DreadPirateLuna · 09/04/2020 13:54

Covid-19 is a very serious illness which threatens our most vulnerable and risks overwhelming the NHS. We should all do what we can to flatten the curve and save lives. People whose behaviour risks lives (e.g. urban residents traveling out to holiday homes in rural communities) should face criticism and sanctions.

However, I can't help feeling that some of the outrage at some behaviours is less about reducing the spread and more about getting caught in a "purity spiral".

Take all the outrage about people in parks. Fresh air and sunshine is good for physical and mental health, it improves the immune system which is particularly important during an epidemic! Many urban residents have no other source of open space except the local park. The ability to get outside can be lifesaving for victims of DV. Risks of contracting disease are very low if you keep your distance from others outside your household.

Yet I've seen photos of walkers and family groups in parks, keeping far away from others, but accused of selfishness and killing the elderly and disrespecting the NHS. Parks in London have been closed, meaning more congestion of other areas and residents confined to homes, which is damaging for reasons outlined above.

And it's usually (though not exclusively) women and esp mothers who get blamed. Those selfish Karens and their broods.

A more sensible solution would be to allow restricted access to the parks. Maybe allow only locals in nearby flats without gardens. But it seems we're not doing sensible these days.

OP posts:
isabellerossignol · 10/04/2020 14:24

The supermarket where I work have had to employ a team of security guards to make people join the queue.

And hundreds of shops, thousands even, don't have to have security guards to make people queue. Confused

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 14:20

isabellerossignol

The supermarket where I work have had to employ a team of security guards to make people join the queue.

This weekend will be telling I think and will determine what happens next.

isabellerossignol · 10/04/2020 14:18

Eh? I didn't call for anyone to break rules. Pointing out that some people do so is not me giving them a pat on the back.

DreadPirateLuna · 10/04/2020 14:18

In my experience, most people are complying with regulations. The queues at supermarkets are mainly because numbers inside are restricted and people are trying to buy in bulk so as to reduce the number of times they have to shop. The vast majority are keeping in their bubbles when outside, even crossing the street to do so.

I did buy wine and face cream last time I was in Tesco's. It was for my elderly mother who's sheltering. I'll tell her next time she needs to do without for the greater good.

My main worry is that we could squander this goodwill and take counterproductive measures. For example, stop teenagers going to parks, where they can be seen and split up if they start congregating, and some of them will meet indoors where they can't be policed and where transmission is more likely. Stop women from leaving the home they share with a violent partner, and murders might well result.

OP posts:
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 14:17

Good for you.

Personally, I find refusal to follow rules that benefit everyone particularly immature and I'm sure that if it were you or a loved one desperately ill with this you wouldn't be calling for everyone to break the rules would you?

isabellerossignol · 10/04/2020 14:14

If people just did what they were asked then there would be no need for stricter lockdown or tighter rules.

But it's blatantly untrue that people aren't sticking to the rules. Some people might not be, but they aren't going to stick to any rules, no matter how strict you make them. There are always people who think that rules are for others (see speeding, using a mobile phone whilst driving and the like). If people weren't sticking to the rules then there wouldn't be long queues around supermarkets because everyone would be ignoring the signs and crowding around the doors demanding to be let in. People, by and large, aren't doing that.

Dances · 10/04/2020 14:10

Above. Read your posts.

Anyway, I'm bored with you now. I am off to perform thought subordination elsewhere.

Again to be clear, I will always says no to people like you. The answer is no.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 14:03

Do show me where I have said your thoughts are killing people?

If you are spending time in a shop then you are delaying the next customer from coming in. That means the responsibility is on you to be in there the least amount of time possible. The shop assistants also shouldn't have to risk infection just for customers to buy cushions and candles.

If you can't see that, and still think it's right to argue for shoppers to buy whatever they want then yes, I judge you and I don't much care whether you like it or not.

Dances · 10/04/2020 13:59

it doesn't matter what you have or haven't bought

Right, so you are back to the Thought Crime again aren't you?

I think you are showing us who you are very well.

It's people like you I have 'outrage' for. And I will pushback against it. Always.

Go on, give me another example of how my thoughts are literally killing people.

And btw, you are on the Feminist board. We have been used to accusations of literally killing people for some time.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 13:53

Dances

I don't want those measures either but I can see that people will not restrict their own behaviour.

If people just did what they were asked then there would be no need for stricter lockdown or tighter rules.

The idea of doing something for the collective good has just disappeared. It's all just "me,myself and I" now except that doesn't work in the face of a global pandemic does it?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 13:49

Dances

It doesn't matter what you have or haven't bought. It's your outrage at how dare anyone try to restrict what you can do or what you can buy, without caring about the knock on effects that your individual wants have on other people.

Also I do wonder if some people are going to supermarkets just to be able to post about the length of the queue.

That's a lot of people going to the shops just to post about queues then. Don't imagine the elderly people pictured in our local paper were there for the Facebook hits tbh.

Dances · 10/04/2020 13:48

You have no evidence of my purchases or behaviour. You have no evidence of how many times I have left the house in the last four weeks. All you have is my objection to draconian measures being imposed. And for that, you call me 'selfish'

Behaviours like this are the very reason I oppose these measures.

meditrina · 10/04/2020 13:45

I'm dead against ID cards but think. hooves is right onthis thread.

Lockdown is the only way to avoid the catstrophe of uncontrolled peak (higher deaths and freefall economic damage as so much more falls over completely for a month or more)

If voluntary lockdown evaporates, what scenario do you want!0? Enforced control? Or unchecked peak?

ChickenNuggetsChipsAndBeans · 10/04/2020 13:44

I have seen some awful examples on Facebook of shaming others. Also I do wonder if some people are going to supermarkets just to be able to post about the length of the queue.

It does give insight into how people shift their behaviours when forced into a new restrictive society.

Dances · 10/04/2020 13:44

And where did I say that what i have bought?

So again, what is on The Hooves' List of Prohibited Goods? I am fascinated to know.

Wine and candles, clearly. What else?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 13:40

And I know what I think of selfish individuals who care only about themselves - so back at you

Dances · 10/04/2020 13:39

Again with the emotional blackmail and bullying. Piss off.

So as I can be perfectly clear - I do not care what you think of me. I do know what I think of people who attempt to control others with emotional blackmail.

TitianaTitsling · 10/04/2020 13:36

And what 'punishment' for those who break the as yet 'everyone has a different understanding of' rules? Anyone else seen Wayward Pines and the civic justice doled out there?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 13:35

TheProdigalKittensReturn

Carry on having a laugh. I'm hearing from ex colleagues in hospitals right now. I'll be sure to tell them how you all think your right to sunbathe in the park or buy some chocolate is more important than what they are dealing with.

Maybe they'll decide that their right to do the same is more important than risking their lives every day. Can't say I would blame them. After all, that's what you are advocating isn't it? An "I'm alright Jack" society.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 10/04/2020 13:31

So, Dances, do you think it's OK that pigeons be forced to learn to play Beethoven on the piano just so chickens can peck to the beat? You monster, you.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 13:31

Btw Singapore and South Korea are hardly icons of freedom of expression, not examples I would like to see the UK following

Maybe so but they haven't tanked their economy trying to control this have they?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 13:30

Seriously, I will go to jail before I consent to being tracked by an app. And I'm far from alone.

Good for you. Maybe you'll be kept under lockdown for longer then while the people who do consent can get back to something more normal.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 13:28

Dances

It's not about taking away joy. How the hell would some of you have coped during the war?

The queue at my local supermarket this week has been two and a half hours waiting time, even during elderly and vulnerable hours because they limit the number of people in there. The longer shoppers are in there, the longer the waiting time to get in is.

So, do you think it's fair that people are having to stand in a line for two and a half hours - even the elderly or disabled - just so that other shoppers can browse the non food items, buy some cushions, check out the clothes, pick out the wine for dinner? Really? You don't think every shopper should be in and out as quickly as possible with their necessities so that everyone gets to shop for food?

So, it's ok that you can buy your wine and flip flops and scented candle but the elderly woman gives up and goes home without buying any food because she physically can't stand in line for that long?

Dances · 10/04/2020 13:28

Seriously, I will go to jail before I consent to being tracked by an app. And I'm far from alone.

Btw Singapore and South Korea are hardly icons of freedom of expression, not examples I would like to see the UK following

Dances · 10/04/2020 13:23

I think your user name should be 'HearHoovesThinkStasi'

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