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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Covid-19 and purity spirals

684 replies

DreadPirateLuna · 09/04/2020 13:54

Covid-19 is a very serious illness which threatens our most vulnerable and risks overwhelming the NHS. We should all do what we can to flatten the curve and save lives. People whose behaviour risks lives (e.g. urban residents traveling out to holiday homes in rural communities) should face criticism and sanctions.

However, I can't help feeling that some of the outrage at some behaviours is less about reducing the spread and more about getting caught in a "purity spiral".

Take all the outrage about people in parks. Fresh air and sunshine is good for physical and mental health, it improves the immune system which is particularly important during an epidemic! Many urban residents have no other source of open space except the local park. The ability to get outside can be lifesaving for victims of DV. Risks of contracting disease are very low if you keep your distance from others outside your household.

Yet I've seen photos of walkers and family groups in parks, keeping far away from others, but accused of selfishness and killing the elderly and disrespecting the NHS. Parks in London have been closed, meaning more congestion of other areas and residents confined to homes, which is damaging for reasons outlined above.

And it's usually (though not exclusively) women and esp mothers who get blamed. Those selfish Karens and their broods.

A more sensible solution would be to allow restricted access to the parks. Maybe allow only locals in nearby flats without gardens. But it seems we're not doing sensible these days.

OP posts:
alloutoffucks · 11/04/2020 13:05

@Mrsfrumble The problem is everyone's interpretation is different. Some of those having parties broken up by the police probably thought it was okay as it was just family attending.

alloutoffucks · 11/04/2020 13:02

And obviously going running with symptoms is not okay.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 11/04/2020 12:51

Do you mean the poster you mention went running after developing symptoms? Or just that going running every day when you feel well is not okay? Because it is!

No, the poster had symptoms and went running because it made her feel better.

Mrsfrumble · 11/04/2020 12:49

I do think the rules need to be subject to some interpretation, because people have different circumstances as in the examples I mention.

alloutoffucks · 11/04/2020 12:44

Yes people are making up their own rules then getting annoyed when called out on it.

But I think part of the problem is what someone said earlier - that we are all going to get it anyway. That is dangerous rubbish. About 10% of the UK population is thought to have had it. Some more will get it. But most people will not get it before we have a vaccine.
If you think we will all get it anyway, then I can see why you would not follow the rules properly.

Mrsfrumble · 11/04/2020 12:44

Do you mean the poster you mention went running after developing symptoms? Or just that going running every day when you feel well is not okay? Because it is!

I don’t personally agree which the poster seeing her grandchild, but it’s obvious by this point in the thread that strangers on the internet berating her is not going to stop it happening.

I’m talking about the examples DreadPirateLuna have in her post; people going shopping more than once a week - because they have no car can only carry so much food at a time. People who look as if they are panic buying and hoarding - but are actually shopping for others. In my case, walking through the park - not “flocking”, just taking the safest route to the supermarket. These are examples are not a result of recklessness, selfishness, or people thinking the “rules don’t apply to them”. But I’ve seen all of them condemned by posters who are caught in the kind of spiral the OP is talking about.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 11/04/2020 12:26

Mrsfrumble

That's the problem though - people interpreting the rules to suit themselves.

They are very clear - leave home as little as possible, and minimise the time you are out, even when out for a permitted reason.

I really don't see where, within those rules, is the latitude to interpret them as go shopping every day, browse the supermarket shelves, sunbathe in a park. How does any of that fit within the rules?

On another thread there's a poster saying she's got symptoms and has been going out running every day because she thought it was ok.

On this thread, a poster seeing their grandchild because they think it's ok.

How can you justify people interpreting the rules as they see fit, when it leads to dumbass decisions?

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 11/04/2020 12:25

Absolutely mrsfrumble

Like the nurse who got a snotty note on her car saying she was part of the problem Just because she was going to work in her civvies

JellyfishandShells · 11/04/2020 12:19

I’m beginning to think it’s not zebra hooves but cloven

Mrsfrumble · 11/04/2020 12:19

Way to deliberately miss DreadPirateLuna’s point Hmm

She (? sorry if you’re not!) already mentioned anger against people indulging in high-risk behaviour as justified. But then goes on to list behaviour that people caught in a purity spiral would perceive as being worthy of their anger, but are actually not. Just people making different choices because of their different circumstances. THAT’S the problem. Not that people are no longer allowed to do exactly as they please.

Aesopfable · 11/04/2020 12:01

My granddaughter is not at school, because it is closed; cannot have play dates with friends; cannot go to the playground in the park, or to any of her other normal social activities. She doesn't go to the supermarket with me or my daughter, either.

How does this differ to the situation every other child is in? Plenty without gardens and single parents. NONE of them can go on play dates or to the playground, or normal social activities. What makes your granddaughter different?

Should my children go and see their grandmother - she only lives 100 miles away but that is ok right? Would it be ok if her other grandchildren came around at the same some? After-all she has been Involved in their lives since they were born? What harm can half a dozen children mixing do? They are all from the same family? And of course they have two sets of grandparents, it is ok to visit the other set too isn’t it????

TinselAngel · 11/04/2020 11:59

Surely if we all decided that our extended family were part of the same household, it would completely defeat the object of the government's advice not to visit other family members?

My elderly DM lives on her own (although in a supportive community with lots of friends), I'd love to go and see her and pretend we're all part of the same household but we're not. We live in different houses.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 11/04/2020 11:58

Really? So people mixing households don't deserve anger?

People congregating in parks don't deserve anger?

People attending the 1000 gatherings that Greater Manchester police attended last weekend don't deserve anger?

People deliberately flouting the rules don't deserve anger?

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 11/04/2020 11:55

that anger hits out at targets who don't deserve it

Absolutely

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 11/04/2020 11:54

Life's a bit shit at the moment. Can we not make it more shit than it has to be?

So, how about the people who are breaking the rules or bending them into a ninety degree angle, make life less shit for everyone?

DreadPirateLuna · 11/04/2020 11:52

This looks superficially like a purity spiral, but I think it is a fear spiral.

I think you're right. We are all afraid. It's a terrifying situation and most of us have high-risk people we love. The mounting death rate and rapid changes to our lives have us all a bit crazy.

Fear can become anger. Some of this anger is justified: against a govt that mismanaged the situation so horrifically, against people indulging in high-risk behaviours that increase the spread.

But when the fear spirals, that anger hits out at targets who don't deserve it. Crowds in a park (a huge park with loads of space for social distancing). That selfish hoarder with the full trolley (buying for several households). That waster-of-time buying a small number of items (lives locally and doesn't have a car). That selfish cow buying wine and bubble bath (a nurse planning a rare night in).

Life's a bit shit at the moment. Can we not make it more shit than it has to be?

OP posts:
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 11/04/2020 11:51

Ive never understood why when someone is breaking the rules its extrapolated out to ‘everyone is doing what ever they want’

But why should some people follow the rules, despite it being extremely tough on them, while others get to do whatever they like? If we're going to say that we'll ignore some who are breaking the rules, why should anyone follow them? We can all consider ourselves special can't we?

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 11/04/2020 11:50

I can’t work out if we have strayed far from the original OP

Or whether we are now proving the point of the OP

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 11/04/2020 11:48

Get a grip! Lots of people are not going to die because a five year old plays in our garden and goes out once a day on her scooter.

But why is it only you allowed to break the rules? If you can do it then so can every grandchild who wants to see grandparents, or every child that doesn't have a garden should be able to go visit someone who does, right? Why should it be only you and your grandchild for whom the rules don't apply?

Then every lonely person should be allowed out to visit right? Or anyone who is finding this tough - all should be allowed to go and visit someone.

Why is it only you for whom the rules don't apply?

Cascade220 · 11/04/2020 11:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 11/04/2020 11:44

Which is why she is not doing any of them.

She's coming to see you, which is mixing households, which isn't allowed. Just because you consider her part of your family unit, they have no garden and school is closed it doesn't make you part of the same household, so you should not be mixing.

My parents have not been out since lockdown started and I'm shielding so it's fine for us to mix then, right? I can visit them and they can visit me yes?

Except that no we can't because we are separate households and my husband might have it and could pass it to me and I could pass it to them. So then that's created a transmission risk that didn't need to be there. It doesn't matter that we might all think it's only a small risk or it probably won't happen because it isn't for us to make our own interpretations of the rules.

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 11/04/2020 11:41

Ive never understood why when someone is breaking the rules its extrapolated out to ‘everyone is doing what ever they want’

Lots of people are following the guidelines its never going to be 100% but the more people do it the better

Justhadathought · 11/04/2020 11:39

Of course lots of people will die, but, hey, them's the breaks right

Get a grip! Lots of people are not going to die because a five year old plays in our garden and goes out once a day on her scooter.

Justhadathought · 11/04/2020 11:37

None of which is permitted. So, another one who just thinks the rules don't apply

Which is why she is not doing any of them.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 11/04/2020 11:35

My granddaughter is a part of our family unit, and has been from the day she was born. My daughter is a single parent, and they have no garden. My granddaughter is not at school, because it is closed; cannot have play dates with friends; cannot go to the playground in the park, or to any of her other normal social activities. She doesn't go to the supermarket with me or my daughter, either.

None of which is permitted. So, another one who just thinks the rules don't apply.

Why should any of us follow the rules then? Let's all just do whatever we personally are comfortable with. Of course lots of people will die, but, hey, them's the breaks right? All that matters is that we get to do what we want, right?