Covid-19 and purity spirals

It is you who is going the interpretation with your prohibition list etc

You were flinging about accusations wildly yesterday even though most of the posters challenging your interpretation are well within guidelines. We just don't go goose stepping around the boards looking for transgressions. And put the blame for most if this shit where it deserves.

I cant imagine you have much time for real life Hooves.

What "real life" do you think I have right now? Hour after hour, day after day of sitting here looking at four walls. Yep, I have so much else to be doing.

Meanwhile, I can read on here about people meeting up with grandchildren, others going running whilst I'll, others going out to the shop multiple times a week, others going out multiple times a day to exercise, others driving miles to go to a beach, others cycling fifty miles a day - why shouldn't I criticise every one of those actions?

@Ereshkigalangcleg I know people who work in smaller shops who say they re getting a lot of people in to buy one can of coke or one chocolate bar. I think there is a real issue there. But I also think there are a lot of people still not taking this seriously and parroting the earlier government message that all those who have died would have died in the next few months anyway. If you believe that, then yes there is zero issue with going to the local chop for one can of coke.

I also think there has not been enough explanation of viral load. That is another reason why mixing households is so dangerous, because the more people mixing, the greater likelihood if one catches corona that someone in the the group mixing will die or be seriously ill.

This is good www.redpepper.org.uk/the-politics-of-covid-19-busy-parks-and-public-blame/

So shall we all follow whatever interpretation of the rules that we fancy then? After all, there should be no penalty or criticism for those who do break or flout the rules right? So why should any of us follow them? Why not all do whatever makes our own lives better and easier? Why be concerned about anyone else?

I cant imagine you have much time for real life Hooves. You spend all your time finding out transgressions from your informers and then haranguing posters on here.

You were clearly gleefully with self vindication to find out that a poster sees her granddaughter.

I think there are some people who will never follow any rules. I put that woman videoed on the bench arguing with the police in that category.
But I also think the very mixed messages from government have contributed to some not following the rules. They still think we need to go for herd immunity and don't realise how widely criticised this has been by the scientific community. If you give out mixed messages, people are less likely to follow the rules.

Yep and there are some who are going out running whilst symptomatic but apparently it was ok because she held her breath as she ran past anyone.

But yep. God forbid we criticise anyone, right? We all should do exactly what we please shouldn't we?

It's not something you can control, Hooves and you need to accept that. Most people aren't going out just to buy chocolate alone. There will be some who do. There will be some who couldn't get what they needed and are already there at the shop, or have gone to top up a key meter. And there are most people, who pick it up as part of a normal food shop.

Words like 'flocking' and 'rushing' and 'crowding' are very emotive in the circumstances and are not helpful as they can be misleading.

No you're not.

Oh really? You know what I'm doing in real life then do you?

Its the flocking to beaches headlines...and then pictures of a virtually empty beach!

No you're not. You say you are, then you go back to hounding people on threads.

And I am doing both. I am condemning the government and others ( chief nursing officer included) for their appalling handling of this, including the latest order to re use PPE. The negligence exhibited towards healthcare workers and the public is criminal.

At the same time, individuals are also responsible for their behaviour. It isn't governments fault that someone is going out running whilst symptomatic or that someone else is mixing households or another person goes shopping every day for a bar of chocolate. They are decisions taken by individuals.

Indeed Mrs F
If there was as much attention put on the Government's failings, as accusations of putting people at risk for shoving a bottle of wine in your trolley, the Goverment might see that they cant blame the public and might, just might start doing what the fuck they are supposed to.

But no, curtain twitching and finger pointing Rule

But so much of the condemnation I see is based on assumptions. Not just on here or Facebook or whatever, but in the media too. Headlines about people “flocking” to beaches and parks. Publishing photos of commuters jammed in to tube carriages, condemning their lack of social distancing without wondering why they might need to be travelling (or how crowded the carriages might be if the service hadn’t been drastically cut). All leading to the perception that we’re a nation of selfish, heartless morons and just leading to more fear and resentment.

And I don’t think criticising the behaviour of individuals and the actions of the government are mutually exclusive, but I’m pissed off with the lack of proportion. Every criticism of the government I’ve seen on here has been immediately countered with “it would have been worse under Jeremy Corbyn!” As if that passes for political debate.

Absolutely dances

I have been watching the Government narrative on this. It has progressed like this and changed as each statement is proven to be untrue.

1. It is just like a mild cold unless you are very elderly or close to death anyway. No need to worry.
2. We all have to catch it anyway - herd immunity.
3. We all have to follow social distancing and wash our hands to protect vulnerable people.
4. We all have to work from home if we can and only go out for these reasons to protect vulnerable people.
5. You need to follow the rules otherwise more people will die. (Although this is true, those currently dying will have nearly all caught it before lock down).
6. No the police are interpreting the rules too strictly, you can do more than they say.

Interspersed are little messages about personal responsibility and that if people are particularly vulnerable they could have chosen to stay at home before lock down anyway. Totally ignoring the fact that for most people that work this was impossible until they received the shielded letter which they could give to their employer allowing them to stay at home.

The field is being set to blame the public for the high death rate. When ultimately the government is to blame.

@Mrsfrumble Of course none of us knows if a large group of people out and about all live together. That is why police stop people and ask questions i.e. do they all live together.

I agree allout
The government has performed shockingly.

I'm seriously sick of the lectures about The Rules when medical staff are not being protected and there are no tests to check if they are infected and spreading further between each other and to their patients.

It suits the Government fine for us to be pointing fingers at each other. We need to start pointing in the right direction

But they aren't mutually exclusive are they? We can be angry at both the government for how they've handled this and at individuals who won't do what they've been told to do.

X-posted with alloutoffucks brilliant post. Some much-needed perspective.

Yes, going running with symptoms is not okay. And I can see that the distinction between “family” and “household” is causing some problems, but that seems to work both ways (I’ve seen posters on here complaining that people walking or shopping together must be breaking the rules if they don’t look like a traditional nuclear family...)

Allowing for some nuance based on differing circumstances is not the same as people not understanding the rules or deliberately flouting them.

Kate Smurthwaite has just shared this publicly on face book -

Today is likely to be the day that the UK passes 1,000 coronavirus deaths in one day. We're also overtaking Spain and Italy in terms of total Coronavirus deaths and our numbers are still going up, not down. You will be hearing a lot of talk about whether this means the lockdown needs to be tightened and how long it needs to go on for. Please bear the following things in mind:

1. The UK numbers ignore those that have died in care homes and at home. The real number is way higher.

1. The timeline for catching COVID-19 to developing symptoms, escalating problems, hospital admission, complications and death is at least three weeks. All these people caught it before "lockdown" in the time period where the government had been advised to implement lockdown and done nothing because they were worried about the economy.

1. Calling what we have in the UK "lockdown" is HUGELY misleading. Yes you and I are not allowed to visit loved ones, shops, restaurants and we feel super-restricted and limited by that. BUT many completely unnecessary jobs have been maintained. People are still working in warehouses and factories that produce non-essential items. Building sites building posh flats still have work going on. This is "for show" lockdown. Not actual lockdown. The UK is still more focussed on making money for rich investors than on protecting lives.

1. Another reason it's misleading to call this a lockdown is that the airports are OPEN. People are coming to the UK from all over the world still. In fact people arriving in the UK from China and Italy are not even being checked to see if they have a fever, let alone put into a quarantine facility. That is reckless.

1. We still don't have testing for all medical staff and care workers. We still don't have community testing. We still don't have antigen testing (available for $75 in the US). We still don't have enough PPE for medical professionals. The BMA is talking today about doctors having to decide whether to carry on working knowing the risk they're taking.

This government has FAILED. They have betrayed every single person in the country. ALL of today's deaths are entirely their fault. We shouldn't be asking whether lockdown will be tightened or extended. We should be asking when the government will actually be doing lockdown. And if they think they can solve the problem by banning people from going for a run while THE AIRPORTS ARE OPEN AND NOT EVEN CHECKING SYMPTOMS they can seriously fuck off

I know. But obviously someone else interpreted the rules as being it was ok.

Just as someone else here interprets the rules to think it's ok to mix households.

And on and on and on.