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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What constitutes modern day feminism

635 replies

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 10:45

What does it mean to be a feminist in the 21st century? When I and indeed the members of my family who I would consider to be feminist were growing up it was about fighting for equal rights for women such as equal pay and better representation of women in high powered jobs and given that the Labour Party has yet again elected a male leader says to me that there is still along way to go. However I and my family members find ourselves becoming more and more uncomfortable with what some might call the more extreme side of feminism.

I fear that certain views of feminism are allowing a rather unhealthy and quite hateful form especially in relation to trans rights. As a member of the lgbt community and although I’m not trans myself I do have friends who are and I also volunteer for a local charity who support and offer counselling to trans teenagers. I see first hand the damage done by the attitudes promoted and supported by some sections of the feminist community dressed up under the guise of ‘free speech’. The trans right issue is a complex one. I don’t think children should be allowed to transition or be given hormone blockers to prevent puberty because I’m not convinced a child has the maturity to make those kind of life changing decisions although that doesn’t mean I don’t believe that children can’t be trans because I see it everyday through my work with the charity and it’s a fact of great shame that at least 70% of young trans have self harmed or tried to commit suicide because of the prejudice they face.

The biggest contentious issue appears to be that of self indentification. I fail to see how it erodes my rights as a women if a trans person chooses to self identify and personally I find the notion that people chose to self identify because they want to harm others somewhat far fetched. Yes I accept that there are some sick indivuals that do this but the fact is the majority of sex offenders offend as men not men who are self identifying as female or the other wan around. I remember mixed sex changing rooms when I was growing up and I don’t remember a vast increase in sexual assay because of it.

Now despite being accused of it on here several times by people who hide behind the guise of feminism to attack anyone who dares to defend trans rights as someone who condones sexual assault I do not in fact as a surviour of sexual assault I find that extremely offensive. Anyone trans or otherwise who commits any kind of sexual assault deserves to be castrated and strung up. Maybe one way around the shared changing room or toilet issue would be to have single cubicles or toilets as we do at our charity so it doesn’t matter who uses them because there’s only u on there. As a parent and someone who works with children who have been absued I can totally understand the argument for parents wanting to know who the child is sharing a changing room with. Personally I wouldn’t allow my son or my nieces who I regularly look after our without a grown up until they were of teenager age and then allow in groups of friends.

I’ve no doubt that this post will either be ignored or removed as mums net seems to remove anything that resembles some who supports the rights of trans people but just as the people who use feminism to try and erode or stand Agasint trans rights I to have the right to express my opinion.

The debate of feminism and trans issues needs to be less toxic and more about open discussion and tolerance of others opinions will allowing healthy debate because trans people are people and have the same right to be heard and to be given the same freedoms as any other member of society. Do I think that all feminists are transphobic absolutely not and neither do I believe that all of the trans community min are good people. There’s good and bad in everyone and every group of society but since when is that a justification for the discrimination of a whole part of society

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/04/2020 13:44

If trans women are women which they are they why does the principles of feminism ie equal rights for women unless u believe trans women aren’t women which in turn reaffirms my point that feminism excludes trans women because those who interpret it are themselves bigots

Right. Here on FWR we don't all subscribe to your personal belief that some males are "women" just because they say so. Feminism is about women and girls. It doesn't "exclude" males just because it has nothing to do with them Hmm

SipChampagneLikeWeThirstay · 05/04/2020 13:44

My teenage daughter doesn’t believe trans women are women either. She’s a female footballer who could potentially make it pro. She doesn’t want to play football with men who ‘feel like’ women.

So, I don’t think gender critical feminism is going away, mate. I don’t think so at all.

Vaginandtonic · 05/04/2020 13:44

There are some trans people who are committed sexual crimes there are many straight people that have there are Christians and Catholic’s and Muslims that have my point is there is good and bad in all sections of society that doesn’t mean we should tar everyone with the same brush which is exactly what the extreme feminists do agasint the trans community

But that's what we do with men, we do tar men with the same brush, that's why we have single sex spaces in some situations.

So at what point does a trans woman cease to become male and actually become female, and therefore lower risk?

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 13:43

Define what a women is then

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ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 05/04/2020 13:43

We aren't born into our bodies, OP. That's a religious belief. We just are our bodies. Dualism has no basis in science whatsoever.

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 13:42

Where as I’m sure yours are fully of justified facts aren’t they

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MarieQueenofScots · 05/04/2020 13:42

And how reassuring it is to know that but the time my children are grown up attitudes like yours will have become less visible

My 13 year old is gender critical....

SipChampagneLikeWeThirstay · 05/04/2020 13:42

You’re not really interested in feminism at all, are you OP?

Seventyone72seventy3 · 05/04/2020 13:41

Put in very simple terms they feel they were born into the wrong body

Is that your answer to why you believe people can change sex? Because it doesn't actually answer anything, does it? Yes, I know some people feel that. It doesn't make it material reality. Can you explain why it does?

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 13:41

And how reassuring it is to know that but the time my children are grown up attitudes like yours will have become less visible like every form of prejudice that has ever been finally it becomes less socially acceptable and trans women will be accepted as women of course there will also be the small minority of narrow minded idiots but the voices of the majority will drown them out

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LadyQuarantinaPluckington · 05/04/2020 13:41

Again, for the hard of thinking -

Feminism = all about women's rights.

This thread is nothing to do with feminism, it is the OP having an extended (and largely incoherent) rant at non compliant women.

I mean, sure, par for the course round here, but seriously, wims, there is no need to get dragged into the mud on this. It really is key - a feminist's focus is women and their rights and protections. Trans-anything is not relevant or central to our concerns in any way

I0NA · 05/04/2020 13:41

Is this this opening paragraph of your GCSE essay OP? Because it needs a lot of work .

BovaryX · 05/04/2020 13:41

exactly what the extreme feminists do agasint the trans community

The extremists are the people who are trying to silence debate, encourage children to think they can transform into the opposite sex. Amongst other notable feats, they have caused an Oxford feminist Professor to require bodyguards. Not a feminist among them....

Vaginandtonic · 05/04/2020 13:41

I'm not really a grammar pedant when chatting online generally, but OP the use of even a little bit of punctuation in your posts might give your argument a little bit more credibility.

MarieQueenofScots · 05/04/2020 13:40

Put in very simple terms they feel they were born into the wrong body

That’s your definition of a transwoman

It’s a very simple question OP, what is a woman?

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 13:38

Put in very simple terms they feel they were born into the wrong body

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Fromage · 05/04/2020 13:38

So you're saying that transphobic people are taking up feminism in order to group with like-minded transphobes, and spreading propaganda claiming transwomen are different from women and thus each group has different needs?

HorseRadishFemish · 05/04/2020 13:37

Please answer my question OP

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 13:36

There are some trans people who are committed sexual crimes there are many straight people that have there are Christians and Catholic’s and Muslims that have my point is there is good and bad in all sections of society that doesn’t mean we should tar everyone with the same brush which is exactly what the extreme feminists do agasint the trans community

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ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 05/04/2020 13:35

Have you considered using punctuation in your writing, OP? It's almost unreadable. Definitely go and do the work your teacher assigned you then come back and try again.

Seventyone72seventy3 · 05/04/2020 13:35

I take issue with is those who use feminism as a guise for transphobia
I really don't know any feminists are transphobic. They are pretty liberal in their outlook. If what you mean is "a lot of feminists don't believe that people can actually change their sex" then I would ask you the opposite question: WHY do you think it is possible to change sex and for male to become female? Do you actually believe this? Because I have never seen anything that convinces me this is true. If you don't believe that men can become women, you have your answer: feminism is for women. Men can be allies but they can't be feminists.

BovaryX · 05/04/2020 13:35

Really and where are your statistics

Why are you unable to provide any credible sources for your statistical claims?

RoyalCorgi · 05/04/2020 13:34

at least 70% of young trans have self harmed or tried to commit suicide because of the prejudice they face

Even if this were true, it would make no difference to feminism. The job of feminism isn't to feel sorry for trans people, it's to liberate women.

Imagine telling black people that they had to accommodate white people who identify as black because they're a vulnerable group who attempt suicide. I think you'd receive a very robust response.

BovaryX · 05/04/2020 13:34

I take issue with is those who use feminism as a guise for transphobia

Like Justice Knowles, I take issue with those who use fictional accusations of 'hate speech' to shut down debate on the myriad disconcerting aspects of this ideology....

MarieQueenofScots · 05/04/2020 13:33

Really and where are your statistics that prove this or am I just to take it as given because the mums net community says it so as for the stats around lgbt youth suicide and self harm this are facts in our charity along 80% of our young people have admitted self harm

Well you’re expecting us to take your stats at face value (FYI you used 70% in your OP...)

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