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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What constitutes modern day feminism

635 replies

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 10:45

What does it mean to be a feminist in the 21st century? When I and indeed the members of my family who I would consider to be feminist were growing up it was about fighting for equal rights for women such as equal pay and better representation of women in high powered jobs and given that the Labour Party has yet again elected a male leader says to me that there is still along way to go. However I and my family members find ourselves becoming more and more uncomfortable with what some might call the more extreme side of feminism.

I fear that certain views of feminism are allowing a rather unhealthy and quite hateful form especially in relation to trans rights. As a member of the lgbt community and although I’m not trans myself I do have friends who are and I also volunteer for a local charity who support and offer counselling to trans teenagers. I see first hand the damage done by the attitudes promoted and supported by some sections of the feminist community dressed up under the guise of ‘free speech’. The trans right issue is a complex one. I don’t think children should be allowed to transition or be given hormone blockers to prevent puberty because I’m not convinced a child has the maturity to make those kind of life changing decisions although that doesn’t mean I don’t believe that children can’t be trans because I see it everyday through my work with the charity and it’s a fact of great shame that at least 70% of young trans have self harmed or tried to commit suicide because of the prejudice they face.

The biggest contentious issue appears to be that of self indentification. I fail to see how it erodes my rights as a women if a trans person chooses to self identify and personally I find the notion that people chose to self identify because they want to harm others somewhat far fetched. Yes I accept that there are some sick indivuals that do this but the fact is the majority of sex offenders offend as men not men who are self identifying as female or the other wan around. I remember mixed sex changing rooms when I was growing up and I don’t remember a vast increase in sexual assay because of it.

Now despite being accused of it on here several times by people who hide behind the guise of feminism to attack anyone who dares to defend trans rights as someone who condones sexual assault I do not in fact as a surviour of sexual assault I find that extremely offensive. Anyone trans or otherwise who commits any kind of sexual assault deserves to be castrated and strung up. Maybe one way around the shared changing room or toilet issue would be to have single cubicles or toilets as we do at our charity so it doesn’t matter who uses them because there’s only u on there. As a parent and someone who works with children who have been absued I can totally understand the argument for parents wanting to know who the child is sharing a changing room with. Personally I wouldn’t allow my son or my nieces who I regularly look after our without a grown up until they were of teenager age and then allow in groups of friends.

I’ve no doubt that this post will either be ignored or removed as mums net seems to remove anything that resembles some who supports the rights of trans people but just as the people who use feminism to try and erode or stand Agasint trans rights I to have the right to express my opinion.

The debate of feminism and trans issues needs to be less toxic and more about open discussion and tolerance of others opinions will allowing healthy debate because trans people are people and have the same right to be heard and to be given the same freedoms as any other member of society. Do I think that all feminists are transphobic absolutely not and neither do I believe that all of the trans community min are good people. There’s good and bad in everyone and every group of society but since when is that a justification for the discrimination of a whole part of society

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katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:26

Nope most of our trans kids have been subjected to some form of abuse

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RedDogsBeg · 05/04/2020 15:25

Whatever u say dude

Your intelligence, clarity and considered well thought out responses are knocking us sideways.

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:25

My five year old is definitely more intellectual then u and most of the transphobic feminists I have come across

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I0NA · 05/04/2020 15:25

@FloralBunting excellent summary, although you forgot the A* in GCSE English, which is very important. And that they also worked with abused children. Who I’m sure are a totally separate group from the ‘trans’ children and youth.

FloralBunting · 05/04/2020 15:25

I'm thinking of collecting the random responses in one post. Like those cutesy 'In this house we...' decorative plaques people have hanging in their kitchen.

Thelnebriati · 05/04/2020 15:23

Actual women have too much on their plate to come up with this kind of twaddle right now.

  • how to keep the kids indoors and entertained
  • how to manage sanpro
  • how to feed the family
  • how to get enough nappies and milk
  • how to manage when one family member returns from work and you only have one bathroom
Justhadathought · 05/04/2020 15:23

So what’s the difference between sex and gender then

Sex is your biology - and along with that secondary sexual characteristics. It is genetically coded.

Gender is a set of behaviours and roles that are expected of men & women......girls and boys........some traits are actively repressed in males, whilst being nurtured in females, and vice versa....depending on culture, society and background.

Liberation movements seek to break down rigid gender roles and expressions - so that the individual can fulfil their true talents, skills, traits.

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:22

Whatever u say dude

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Datun · 05/04/2020 15:22

Hmm i'll try and attach the photo again

What constitutes modern day feminism
Datun · 05/04/2020 15:21

OP, are you aware that at least 85% of transwomen keep their penis? (stats are from a transgender organisation.)

And is this a woman?

RedDogsBeg · 05/04/2020 15:20

I was yes I’m not sure how I define as a women what makes someone a women

Then how can you so assuredly assert that transwomen are women?

A toddler could come up with a more convincing and logical argument than what's being put forward by the OP.

midgebabe · 05/04/2020 15:20

I think gender could be broader than just external expectation and may also include internal expectation

That would account for how different people respond to the concept depending on how self or externally focussed you are

FloralBunting · 05/04/2020 15:19

midge, oh, I get that, truly. If we're all just batting the silly visitor around like bored cats with an especially tedious mouse, then it's cool, naturally. Just didn't want anyone drawn in to some of the more obviously goady elements being hamfistedly wielded by Bespin the visitor.

TinselAngel · 05/04/2020 15:19

We don't need to waste our time answering that as it's done very effectively here:

sexandgenderintro.com/

Datun · 05/04/2020 15:19

I agree floral, babbling nonsense is one thing. Babbling nonsense that is a hairsbreadth from being full of rage is quite another.

The people I work with are some of the most rationale people I have ever met and they believe that sex can change

Not sure heart one could even construct a sentence so contradictory, but anyway, the contradiction is further embedded with.

around lgbt youth suicide and self harm this are facts in our charity along 80% of our young people have admitted self harm

Along with ...

Neither do a lot of trans women my colleagues who have transition don’t have male genitals

You the twisted fuck obsessed with what is between peoples legs

So they're rational, but most of them try to kill themselves or self harm. They believe you can change sex which is an example of that rational thinking. You know all about their genitalia, but think that other people are obsessed with it if they question it.

Okayyyy...

Justhadathought · 05/04/2020 15:18

Well I disagree I think there are people who are trapped in the wrong body and can change their sex

This is a fairly modern idea.....Transsexualism used to be seen and treated as a mental health issue.And surgery and hormones were the very last resort.

How can a person literally be 'trapped' in the wrong body? how does that work? What you mean is that they struggle with the roles and stereotypes/expectations associated with males and female; or have strong feelings of repulsion towards their body?

The goal of most psychotherapies is mind/body integration - and always has been.

koshkatt · 05/04/2020 15:18

Yep - just another man on here scolding us! The backstory gets madder every time he adds something to it.

Thelnebriati · 05/04/2020 15:18

Sex is your physical body; gender is the role society expects you to play based on your sex.

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:17

So what’s the difference between sex and gender then

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midgebabe · 05/04/2020 15:17

Hint

XX
Also XXX

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 05/04/2020 15:16

Where's your evidence that people can change sex?

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:16

I was yes I’m not sure how I define as a women what makes someone a women

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midgebabe · 05/04/2020 15:16

But floral, it's light in dark days?

RedDogsBeg · 05/04/2020 15:16

Hang on a minute katienlisa earlier you said this:

How are they not especially as they can now legally change their gender

Now you are saying this:

Well I disagree I think there are people who are trapped in the wrong body and can change their sex

So which is is? Sex or gender?

Please note sex and gender are not the same thing.

FloralBunting · 05/04/2020 15:15

You do all know that nowt said by the OP is on the level here, right? I mean, I always respect the abilities of the women here to do logic with any given argument, but I'd hate to think anyone was actually buying that the OP was a nursery worker with a 5 year old who also worked with LGBTQ+ teenagers who self harmed and knew lots of TW who had genital surgery, and was also a lesbian who had dated MTF trans before?

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