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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What constitutes modern day feminism

635 replies

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 10:45

What does it mean to be a feminist in the 21st century? When I and indeed the members of my family who I would consider to be feminist were growing up it was about fighting for equal rights for women such as equal pay and better representation of women in high powered jobs and given that the Labour Party has yet again elected a male leader says to me that there is still along way to go. However I and my family members find ourselves becoming more and more uncomfortable with what some might call the more extreme side of feminism.

I fear that certain views of feminism are allowing a rather unhealthy and quite hateful form especially in relation to trans rights. As a member of the lgbt community and although I’m not trans myself I do have friends who are and I also volunteer for a local charity who support and offer counselling to trans teenagers. I see first hand the damage done by the attitudes promoted and supported by some sections of the feminist community dressed up under the guise of ‘free speech’. The trans right issue is a complex one. I don’t think children should be allowed to transition or be given hormone blockers to prevent puberty because I’m not convinced a child has the maturity to make those kind of life changing decisions although that doesn’t mean I don’t believe that children can’t be trans because I see it everyday through my work with the charity and it’s a fact of great shame that at least 70% of young trans have self harmed or tried to commit suicide because of the prejudice they face.

The biggest contentious issue appears to be that of self indentification. I fail to see how it erodes my rights as a women if a trans person chooses to self identify and personally I find the notion that people chose to self identify because they want to harm others somewhat far fetched. Yes I accept that there are some sick indivuals that do this but the fact is the majority of sex offenders offend as men not men who are self identifying as female or the other wan around. I remember mixed sex changing rooms when I was growing up and I don’t remember a vast increase in sexual assay because of it.

Now despite being accused of it on here several times by people who hide behind the guise of feminism to attack anyone who dares to defend trans rights as someone who condones sexual assault I do not in fact as a surviour of sexual assault I find that extremely offensive. Anyone trans or otherwise who commits any kind of sexual assault deserves to be castrated and strung up. Maybe one way around the shared changing room or toilet issue would be to have single cubicles or toilets as we do at our charity so it doesn’t matter who uses them because there’s only u on there. As a parent and someone who works with children who have been absued I can totally understand the argument for parents wanting to know who the child is sharing a changing room with. Personally I wouldn’t allow my son or my nieces who I regularly look after our without a grown up until they were of teenager age and then allow in groups of friends.

I’ve no doubt that this post will either be ignored or removed as mums net seems to remove anything that resembles some who supports the rights of trans people but just as the people who use feminism to try and erode or stand Agasint trans rights I to have the right to express my opinion.

The debate of feminism and trans issues needs to be less toxic and more about open discussion and tolerance of others opinions will allowing healthy debate because trans people are people and have the same right to be heard and to be given the same freedoms as any other member of society. Do I think that all feminists are transphobic absolutely not and neither do I believe that all of the trans community min are good people. There’s good and bad in everyone and every group of society but since when is that a justification for the discrimination of a whole part of society

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MrsDoylesTeaBags · 05/04/2020 15:55

I would say too things trans women can’t understand the physical affects of miscarriage but then neither can I I can never have kids but does this make me less of a women

I thought you had a 5 year old? Hmm

Seventyone72seventy3 · 05/04/2020 15:55

does this make me less of a women
No, of course not. Because if you are female, you are a woman.

However,
trans women can’t understand the physical affects of miscarriage
I would say that they also can't know what it feels like to be a woman. At most they can feel discomfort with being a man - but that is not the same as feeling like a woman. And even it were, it doesn't make you female. Sex is biological. I can still sympathise with people with gender dysphoria. I can still wish them well and hope they find peace as most people do. That doesn't mean I can believe they have actually changed sex because they don't feel male.

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:55

I’m always up for a challenge

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MarieQueenofScots · 05/04/2020 15:54

I would say too things trans women can’t understand the physical affects of miscarriage but then neither can I I can never have kids but does this make me less of a women I thing it was wrong that u had to shut down the group

Of course it doesn’t make you less of a woman. It does mean the group wasn’t appropriate for you - or rather these two sessions - weren’t. Sadly menz feels are more important than support for women. Now do you see why women are concerned their spaces are being eroded?

We can’t talk about the physical effects of miscarriage in case we offend a person who doesn’t even have the biological equipment to have one?

RedDogsBeg · 05/04/2020 15:54

Miscarriage doesn't just affect women physically and any woman whether or not they have experienced miscarriage and/or can't have children can fully understand that.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/04/2020 15:54

I guess we're all whiling away our time in any way we can. That's why people are responding to you, OP.

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:54

Yes we have specialised and highly trained youth workers and counsellors

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Justhadathought · 05/04/2020 15:53

No I came on here for civilised debate something that is clearly lacking in the mums net community I was warned but like a challenge

Katienlisa.......you are not up to the challenge. That is clear. Calling people names is not civilised. Civilised debate requires listening to the points,, then addressing them in logical manner - with examples...as many of us have tried to do with you.

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:53
Grin
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Justhadathought · 05/04/2020 15:51

A lot of them have experienced sexual abuse

And does your service therefore explore this very serious issue of sexual abuse before affirming a trans identity? I would certainly hope so - otherwise that is not only deeply negligent, but unethical.

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:51

No I came on here for civilised debate something that is clearly lacking in the mums net community I was warned but like a challenge

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katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:50

As indeed I can with u pet

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BovaryX · 05/04/2020 15:49

I’m not religious and have very coloured views of religion
katien

That's strange. Because trans ideology has alot in common with religion. It has an orthodoxy which must be adopted. It has martyrs. It has witchunts and denunciations. Its slogan is #no debate. It has zero empirical evidence to substantiate its claims. And it has its heretics. Didn't you come on here for a bit of lockdown heretic baiting?

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:49

I would say too things trans women can’t understand the physical affects of miscarriage but then neither can I I can never have kids but does this make me less of a women I thing it was wrong that u had to shut down the group

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MrsDoylesTeaBags · 05/04/2020 15:49

No on knows who is really sat behind a keyboard when u can’t see them

Oh Katie, we see you clearly

RedDogsBeg · 05/04/2020 15:49

OP:

Define active discrimination
State what human rights trans people don't have

Justhadathought · 05/04/2020 15:48

And how I do know your not a man

Katienlisa - can I say - without wanting to be unnecessarily offensive...but you seem deeply confused...and unable to think straight.

You posted at great length - assuming everyone here would rush to have your post deleted ( maybe because that is what you are used to in the circles in which you move?), and when people have taken the trouble to respond in good faith you can't seem to hack it.

you do realise that there are many thousands of people who look in on this board, and there are many intelligent people posting here. People who have been involved in liberation and political movements for a long time. Teachers, professors, lawyers, professionals working with children and in mental health services..people with lots of experience; who have written books, made films, and even some who are quite well known ( albeit with a pseudonym). you can't just come in and start yelling 'transphobe' and 'bigot'. You are going to have to start thinking logically and being open to full and proper debate.

Seventyone72seventy3 · 05/04/2020 15:45

Do you actively discriminate agasint transgendered people

Could you ask questions TO people as it is hard to follow you otherwise? If it's to me, then no, of course not.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 05/04/2020 15:45

Hilarious katienlisa552 that you come on here with your misguided appropriation of the moral high ground and tell us all off for being bitter old bigoted hags, while being stunningly unaware that the problem - the whole of the problem - lies with you.

You are the bigot. You are the misogynist. You are the coward, the liar, the irrational, phobic dinosaur who feels compelled to force people into rigid gender boxes and exclude gender non-conforming people from the sex they were born into.

You are the one who cannot accept that what sex they are need have no bearing on the way a person behaves, their personality or preferences. You are the one saying that people who behave or feel a certain way must “be” women and people who behave or feel a certain other way must “be” men. You wish to limit people. You wish to confine people. You wish to vehemently police what thoughts, feelings and behaviours are acceptable for men, and what are acceptable for women. You are the hideously regressive, exclusionary one.

You can come in here and scold us all you like; I have nothing but contempt for your ignorance, your zealotry, your authoritarianism. Or your take on “feminism”. FFS.

RedDogsBeg · 05/04/2020 15:45

I’m not religious and have very coloured views of religion and yet you believe in the quasi religious anti science and biology TRA ideology.

MarieQueenofScots · 05/04/2020 15:45

Here you go OP

Here’s a scenario for you. I was involved in a discussion group surrounding the longterm physical effects of miscarriage. We ended up having to stop as a TRA started calling us bigoted for excluding transwomen. Now explain how a transwoman can have any physical effects of miscarriage and why vulnerable women should discuss intimate medical issues in front of a male?

Can I please have a response to this question?

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:44

Do you actively discriminate agasint transgendered people

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katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:43

Is that why there are a lot of children who are diagnosed with asd who have gender issues

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MarieQueenofScots · 05/04/2020 15:42

If that was to me I already explained the anecdote earlier.

Can you explain why it was reasonable or whether you think the transwomen involved got it wrong?

Seventyone72seventy3 · 05/04/2020 15:42

I’m not religious and have very coloured views of religion

Yet you are perfectly fine with insisting that people who don't believe that men can change sex are bigots - what's the difference between this and enforcing religious belief?