Men pushing in in queues and not social distancing.

Because, I've noticed, women don't tend to behave that way (as a class).

Same thing with driving too fast and spitting. I'm sure there are examples of women doing these things but in my experience that's as rare as hen's teeth.

Why don't you think ",bloody hooligans"?

It's as tho' when there are reports of football hooligans trashing a bar or café abroad there are some people who automatically think - bloody women!

Disclaimer - NAFSALT

You see when I hear about fighting on the terraces etc. I do think - bloody men!

Does that make me a bad person?

The end goal is to liberate yourself from your own part in that process.

The end goal of feminism is for women to liberate themselves from being annoyed by men? Sorry I'm not sure what you mean?

It's not anti all individual men. But this doesn't preclude pointing out when lots of individual men are acting like tossers

Of course not...but to then extend that into a generalised rant about men is not what it is about either. Back in the early days of consciousness raising that sort of feeling was more evident, and 'natural'. When you first 'wake up' to a struggle for liberation....you tend to see that which you despise, or that which oppresses you everywhere.....But that is not the end goal. The end goal is to liberate yourself from your own part in that process.

Beautifully put, Justhadathought, thank you very much.

Dido, you’re the one who’s spent about a thousand posts attacking anyone who has concerns about patterns of oppressive male behaviour or the existence of patriarchy

No, she hasn't! She doesn't doesn't go for group think & automatic generalised hatred and prejudice; recognising that life, in 21C Britain, is far more nuanced than that.

Feminism is the struggle for the liberation of female people from patriarchy- patriarchy being the structures of male dominance.

It's not anti all individual men. But this doesn't preclude pointing out when lots of individual men are acting like tossers.

It's a little disheartening that some posters view disagreement with a particular premise as somehow 'anti-feminist' and/or that the only legitimate form of discussion is one based on agreement

Absolutely....as if there is a single theme that everything must be brought back to...that men...all men, by nature or nurture, are controlling, arrogant pricks. Is that really what feminism means to some people? I suspect it is.

That is not to suggest that certain behaviours and attitudes are not socially constructed and nurtured more in males than in females, and vice versa.....that is certainly true in general terms. but life, and people, are nuanced and many of us simply don't conform to expectations. That, to my mind, suggests progress.......that we are generally freer to be who we are, and express ourselves outside of sexist expectation. Isn't that the goal?

And to pretend that all women must necessarily be victims, and all men oppressors sounds like a dead end to me.

dunno, maybe the feminist focus of the topic is eluding some posters

To my mind, feminism doesn't imply having to have a single party line, or fixed articles of faith: that men are inherently selfish, arrogant, violent, controlling......and so on. It implies women being free to make choices about their life, the way they live it, and in being permitted to develop their talents, gifts and strengths.

It also means valuing the female roles & processes that are connected to the fact of biology and the body: motherhood, nurturing, home-making, and so on.....

The focus should be on women and the female, not on men.

Clearly many women are involved in painful and negative relationships with men, in which they feel controlled or demeaned...but that is not the first principle of feminism...or a kind of diktat. It is not women versus men. Feminism is a form of humanism, to my mind....one which focuses on the specific experience of being in a female body in any given society.

The faked concern absolutely makes my skin crawl, it's horribly "calm down dear" with a little bit of committing 'hysterical' women to Bedlam thrown in.
Well said. It's horribly misogynistic, and shameful coming from alleged feminists

It's a little disheartening that some posters view disagreement with a particular premise as somehow 'anti-feminist' and/or that the only legitimate form of discussion is one based on agreement.

The faked concern absolutely makes my skin crawl, it's horribly "calm down dear" with a little bit of committing 'hysterical' women to Bedlam thrown in.

Yeah, women and aggressive tones. Definitely need to express ourselves so that we are putting things across in the right tone

Ah yes, the tone argument. How original.

So many red herrings. It’s almost as if certain people don't want to discuss the topic. Which is odd, because MN has hundreds of other threads and boards, if you don’t like this one.

Or there is even a facility to start one’s own thread on a topic of one’s choice.

I happen to think that many of the threads and posts on MN are nonsense. But I don’t go on and tell them that, because that’s rude, it’s a free country and they should be allowed to talk about what they like.

I’ve no interest in derailing threads on style and beauty because I personally have no interest in that topic. And what possible interest would I have in going onto, say, the chicken Keepers topic and telling they are all wrong because I’m vegan? That would be weird and controlling.

Same with the people who constantly post saying how wrong and hateful all the posters on MN are. Well other chat sites are available, why spend so much time here telling everyone how much you hate them?

Some people are clearly quite troubled. Or bored now school is closed.

Interesting thread.

And I don’t know who reported the deleted post either. I Looked at threads ‘I’m on’ yesterday morning, it was there, I read it, then 3 minutes later it was gone. It might have been picked up by MN for all we know.

It’s beyond me why people can’t see the problem here.
Only a dozen or so posts in, someone called me man because my post was one of the first to declare the opposite of the opening post.
Someone else pointed out the obvious.
On a feminist chat of all places.
We’re not saying men don’t push in, we’re not saying women don’t push in, we’re simply keeping to the truth. It includes sharing our own very limited experience and observation since the lockdown began - which is true because it happened even if we account for the fact that people sometimes see what they want to see (human nature). It also includes pointing out miss- information, which was a lie, using logic and verifiable facts.

Fuck me, give DidoLamenting a break. Dido did nothing but argue, in a very clear manner, the fact that an opposing point of view was dismissed right from the start.

There would be a million explanations as to why men and women don’t observe the social distancing rules. I’m not a sociologist, I find the various explanations on here very interesting and some are credible. But the fact is we don’t know for certain why it happens.
We are trying to discuss it not argue over it because grownups have debates by sharing their points of view, listening to others’ points of views, drawing conclusions, being flexible or agreeing to disagree in an articulate fashion according to their own knowledge and ability to express themselves (it’s not a crime to not know something). Children and teenagers have tantrums or see things as ‘my way or no way’. And their vocabulary tends to include age specific expressions, known only to themselves (at least that’s my experience having spent enough time around these age groups).

If I was to add to the list of my own experiences that I recall: saw a couple I know very well to in the park when walking the dog the other day. Over the years, I have spent more time with the man than the woman am closer to him but equally comfortable with both. Our families are close. We were talking whilst being apart about 5m. The man stayed put, the woman kept edging forward towards me and I kept stepping back until I reminded her we should try and not get closer. It was instinctive, she is a very intelligent woman and she knows what distances are. He’s still a man, regardless of the fact that I know him. She’s still a woman, regardless of the fact that I know her. Maybe the men I observed around here are better at self preservation.

Ah. Dido is just "not like all the other girls"
Gotcha.

Dido, you’re the one who’s spent about a thousand posts attacking anyone who has concerns about patterns of oppressive male behaviour or the existence of patriarchy.

You’re clearly very, very invested in shutting down debate and bullying women into not talking.

Pathetic, @OccasionalKite. Really pathetic.

Dido, I am worried about you. Hope you're alright really. It is a difficult time for all of us, we know.

Faux concern. It's not becoming.

Oh well done OccasionalKite. Faux You seem very invested in trying to shut posters up.

Of course I only earned a deletion for quoting, rather than making, the offensive post which got you deleted.

It's a pity it was removed. I didn't by the way report it. I think it would have been better left to show exactly what you said in your efforts to shut up posters.

Dido, I think you should try chilling out a bit, perhaps? You seem rather stressed, all the considerable time you're spending on here, weirdly defending an anti-women compulsion - on a feminist message board??!!!

HelenaDove - your original post has so obviously burnt a nerve with some other posters who fear what you said!

"Burnt a nerve" ? How ridiculous

Mind you I have to admire the ever more inventive and contorted language being used to try to shut up posters.