Men pushing in in queues and not social distancing.

You don't think patriarchy puts gendered expectations on women, Hooves?

I think as human beings we are all capable of thinking for ourselves and making our own decisions.

If you are saying that gendered expectations are applied by the patriarchy and that women are incapable of ignoring those expectations then why aren't all women complying with them? Equally, men are also victims of the patriarchy, so if women are compelled to follow gendered expectations imposed by the patriarchy so too must men be.

So, men can't change their behaviour either and are compelled to follow gendered expectations, right?

Utter rubbish. We all have personal responsibility for the choices we make regardless of whether we are male or female.

Cross post, thanks midge.

... Plenty of women attend speed awareness courses..

That has surprised me. Do you have the figures?

A quick search suggest men about 2.5 times more likely to be speeding

Significant but not at the hens teeth level

I said driving too fast

Same thing with driving too fast and spitting. I'm sure there are examples of women doing these things but in my experience that's as rare as hen's teeth

I'm sure with regards to speeding, there will be statistics on that.
Plenty of women attend speed awareness courses, so I don't think it'll be as rare as hens teeth.

No as feminists we'd say patriarchy puts gendered expectations on women to do with beauty, femininity and appeal to the male gazeYes. Because women have been socialised into this patriarchal expectation.hmm*

If beauty is the only female power/tool then, yes.......but we have moved on from that in many respects these days in the West. although many women still like to be seen as pretty, and see that as their main selling point. I guess they'll attract the men that value that most of all in a woman. But males can preen too......

Preening behaviour is natural in many species.

Same thing with driving too fast and spitting. I'm sure there are examples of women doing these things but in my experience that's as rare as hen's teeth

Male spitting, is certainly a masculine social construction in certain sections of society. As for confident, assertive driving - I would say i'm a confident and assertive driver, myself...and don't conform to the dithering, overly polite, overly cautious/nervous female driver stereotype. The driving analogies are interesting - because your driving style does tend to reflect your own personality or nature, regardless of sex.

Maybe risk-taking is more of a masculine trait - and maybe even inherent in male nature; as would be recklessness.......but not all men are reckless; and not all women are placatory.

You see when I hear about fighting on the terraces etc. I do think - bloody men

I tend to picture fairly un-evolved and crude form of masculinity - of which some men are guilty.

We often get caught up in past, negative conditioning...the goal, or one of them, certainly, is to free yourself from that conditioning - and unconscious/conscious expectation.

The end goal of feminism is for women to liberate themselves from being annoyed by men? Sorry I'm not sure what you mean

The end goal would be to avoid those sorts of overly controlling or negative relationships and the types of men who are controlling and demeaning. We all have individual agency and responsibility; certainly in a modern, western nation - where full legal and civil rights have been won, and where we are free to choose; to act; to divorce..and so on.....

A) women are incapable of independent thought

I find it to be a remarkably robust, self-referential dogma. Women are remarkable, intelligent, independent, strong, superior beings, until they do something that conflicts with the debaters personal version of feminism, then they've internalised patriarchal beliefs.

Sorry tinsel, that was to the previous post.

Look up socialisation.

You don't think patriarchy puts gendered expectations on women, Hooves?

Football hooligans come overwhelmingly from the group of humans called men. Just like sexual predators.

I think I've just been NAMALTed..

No as feminists we'd say patriarchy puts gendered expectations on women to do with beauty, femininity and appeal to the male gaze.

So
A) women are incapable of independent thought
B) why don't all women, of even the majority of women do it

It could be male pattern behaviour but it's a new phenomenon and I think it's important to have people challenging and pointing out the dangers of confirmation bias. Otherwise all we're going to get is a new spin on the 'an old woman touched my baby' threads.

Yes. Because women have been socialised into this patriarchal expectation.

I get more criticism of my appearance and of failing to wear make up from other women than from men

Minority of women spend inordinate amounts of time and money on beauty treatments - so can we say that women, as a class, are vain?

No as feminists we'd say patriarchy puts gendered expectations on women to do with beauty, femininity and appeal to the male gaze.

Because, I've noticed, women don't tend to behave that way (as a class

Nor do men, as a class. Football hooligans are a minority.

Minority of women spend inordinate amounts of time and money on beauty treatments - so can we say that women, as a class, are vain?

I knew what you leant.

Fucking day!

Last week went to the chemist to pick up prescriptions. I’m a bit early so wait outside.

Few minutes later, guy comes along and waits too. We spend a minute smiling and rearranging our selves on the pavement so we’re both comfortable and not blocking pavement. Great.

Then another guy comes along and takes great pleasure in walking at us both so we have to move. He had to go out of his way to do it, as I’m basically right up at the chemist window and guy 1 is by a big flower trough at the edge of the road a few metres away. The git guy has that smile on people have when they are enjoying power/making others feel uncomfortable.

On my way back I see the guy guy at local post office/newsagent just getting a paper right up at counter making post lady really uncomfortable, then bruise cruising all the people in the queue outside on his way out.

Bet he does that every ducking day. Cunt.