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Jane Fae: The coronavirus death rate for men is high possibly because women 'are not pulling their weight in the crisis'

231 replies

jadefinch · 03/04/2020 12:16

How is this anything other than a men's rights movement?

Jane Fae: The coronavirus death rate for men is high possibly because women 'are not pulling their weight in the crisis'
Jane Fae: The coronavirus death rate for men is high possibly because women 'are not pulling their weight in the crisis'
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/04/2020 14:06

Thank you Janice and Dr Moalem.

R0wantrees · 11/04/2020 11:25

10/4/2020 Janice Turner for The Times
'Coronavirus exposes gulf between the sexes
There’s a cruel irony in the fact that men, for all their superior strength, are dying in greater numbers than women'

(extract)
"Now we know superior female strength is internal: we may lose every Olympic race to men but we ace the long game. More boys are born, 105 to 100 girls, because nature knows that by the age of 40 this will have evened out. Women are better at enduring famine, infections and cancer. There is an inbuilt female health advantage at every age, from surviving premature birth to living longer as wiry, seemingly indestructible old ladies like my mother: eight in ten centenarians are women. It helps that the greatest female health risk — death in childbirth — has, at least in developed nations, largely been tamed.

"But with Covid-19, as with other viruses, the sex factor is stark. This, argues Sharon Moalem, author of The Better Half, is because women are stronger at genetic level. Females have two X chromosomes — one from their mothers, the other from fathers — but males have only a single X, and a Y from their fathers. Having two Xs, says Dr Moalem, can offer a survival advantage because, in essence, women have a spare, meaning fewer congenital birth abnormalities or developmental disabilities such as autism.

And in a pandemic that double X is a true blessing: one X chromosome in a cell can spot the invading virus, while the other X works on killing cells that are infected already. With just a single X and a weedier Y, men lack that double-barrelled protection. Moreover, higher levels of testosterone in men, says Dr Moalem, repress the immune system, while oestrogen stimulates it.

How extraordinary that it took Covid-19 to expose the absurdity of an utterly unscientific argument gaining mainstream traction, and posed as recently as the Labour leadership election, that biological sex is not real but an artificial construct, randomly “assigned” to babies at birth. In fact, sex is coded in our very cells and, as this epidemic reveals, can affect our odds for life or death.

Yet despite these stark differences there has been a paucity of sex aggregated data to help fight the virus and find a possible cure. The Lancet argues this week that “obscuring sex and gender differences in treatment and vaccine development could result in harm”. In Invisible Women, the author Caroline Criado Perez exposed how the default patient in medical research is invariably male, as women with their variable hormone levels are thought to skew data. As Dr Moalem writes: “The medical establishment has largely overlooked the profound chromosomal, hormonal and anatomical uniqueness of genetic females.”

Already, The Lancet notes, the lockdown burdens of impoverishment, housework, care for children and the elderly have fallen disproportionately upon women, while there has been a global rise in domestic violence.But the virus itself is killing more men and this male fragility is a terrifying shock."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-exposes-gulf-between-the-sexes-rsc69njkv?shareToken=f194e7faf4ff3011666661116493599a&wgu=270525_54264_15865970780505_d44ec2608f&wgexpiry=1594373078&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3877193-janice-turners-times-column-today

NoMorePoliticsPlease · 08/04/2020 14:56

Women have two x chromozomes, has an effect on the immune system, well documented,

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 08/04/2020 14:52

Oh, here we go. Actually, I take it back, the medic doesn't mention sex. It's in the body of the article, they use 'sex hormones' because I suppose they haven't yet managed to convince anyone 'gender hormones' are a thing.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52197594

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 08/04/2020 14:49

They just can't help themselves. Saw an article today going on about the 'gender' difference, which then quoted a medic using 'sex', but you could read the gritted teeth through the type.

BatShite · 08/04/2020 13:58

Government criticised for not collecting sex disaggregated Covid-19 data

For fucks sake..

I did wonder if medical staff and such had finaslly started recording sex rather than 'gender', given the stats say men are higher risk so obviously sex should be noted. I guess theres the answer..noones 'gender' will make a difference at all, pretending it does is dangerous. Unless I guess, in the coming weeks we find out that those who wear dresses and nail varnish are lower risk for some reason. But I doubt that somehow.

I find it ridiculous that any medical notes recorded 'gender' in the first bloody place. Sex matters in some areas of life, and medical sruff is one of the most serious areas!

PertEllaTitsahoy · 08/04/2020 12:22

I'm sure there will be a full study on the effect this virus is having on men, in order to understand why men are seemingly impacted more, in order to assist with a possible vaccine.

The higher rate of women dying outside of a hospital setting? Meh, probs because they were really old. Theres no need to look into that any further...

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/04/2020 11:53

On the basis of the difference between the ONS data and the critical care data, I'd say it bloody well does.

Completely agree.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/04/2020 11:51

That's because that's what they do so they assume that everyone else is doing it too.

Indeed!

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2020 11:19

Gibbons, I think it is possible its both.

The trouble is without proper data collection we don't know.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 08/04/2020 10:04

I worried that the sex difference in deaths/ICU might be due to women’s reported symptoms being taken less seriously than men’s (as we see across medicine but particularly pain relief) but I do think/hope the far higher % of very elderly women is the likely cause of the discrepancy.

Of course unless all the data are separated by sex we’ll never bloody know - wonder who that would advantage?Hmm

DuLANGDuLANGDuLANG · 08/04/2020 09:51

Could it be that the majority of women who are dying are in the oldest age group? And not being admitted to intensive care due to being too frail (or assumed too frail)?

My brain is too fried to look for evidence this morning but this ONS report from 2011 (most recent, sadly) says that there are 2.8 female care home residents for every male resident.

So perhaps the majority of CV19 care home deaths are female residents? Is that info on the ONS COVID19 death register? I find that spreadsheet impossible to read on my mobile.

It’s a question to copy over to Barracker’s CV19 data thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3870224-Daily-numbers-graphs-analysis-thread-3?pg=27

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2020 09:31

Yes I know that.

But it also records outcomes from intensive care.

Women are dying in far larger numbers than the number of women dying in critical care.

We could do with knowing why and whether this means women are getting less health care provision whether this is critical care OR as I suspect proper palliative care in nursing homes. Or whether women have different symptoms to men leading to them not getting admitted to critical care early enough (or both)

The fact we are not exploring this speaks volumes. We know that women traditionally have health inequality in many many areas. Is it going on with covid-19?

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 08/04/2020 09:08

The ICNARC report above was prepared by intensivists and records men and women in intensive care.

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2020 08:59

Some figures which are concerning and need more explanation.

The ONS figures record the following:

Our latest data on weekly deaths registrations include deaths involving COVID-19. In the three weeks up to 27 March, there were 647 deaths in England and Wales involving COVID-19 (397 men and 250 women).

The majority of deaths involving COVID-19 have been among people aged 65 years and over (568 out of 647), with 41% (233) of these occurring in the over-85 age group.

Our figures are based on deaths registered in the stated period and include all deaths where “COVID-19” was mentioned on death certificates. They differ from those published by the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC), which are based on deaths occurring to date among hospital patients who have tested positive for COVID-19.

That's 38.6% women to 61.4% men.

Concerning is the Department of Health figures for deaths in hospital don't appear to be recording sex. I can't find a data set from the Doh directly recording this information. (if anyone can let me know)

What we do know is that there is research into those admitted to critical care by sex.

This states that 27% are women v 73% men. For non covid-19 viral pneumonia you'd expect a 46:54 split.

Jane Fae: The coronavirus death rate for men is high possibly because women 'are not pulling their weight in the crisis'
Jane Fae: The coronavirus death rate for men is high possibly because women 'are not pulling their weight in the crisis'
TheClitterati · 08/04/2020 08:21

Jane is terrified Janes chromosomes & biological sex might deceive them Grinand make them more Vulnerable to c19

This shoe from Radio 4 on Monday was fascinating and explains why women have much stronger immune responses than men. It also means women are more vulnerable to auto immune response disorders too.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000h2c0

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/04/2020 08:14

Projection, thy name is...something frou frou, and thy face is either an image pilfered from anime or a creepily sexualized cartoon animal.

DickKerrLadies · 08/04/2020 08:09

I still see regularly TRA types saying that only a few hundred terfs exist, and 'we' simply have thousands of multis each with which we flood the internet

That's because that's what they do so they assume that everyone else is doing it too.

WeetabixBananaHipsterFFS · 08/04/2020 07:48

"harvest the otherwise worthless cis women for their blood"

Fae can keep their knitting-calloused paws off my plasma Angry

permana · 08/04/2020 05:45

What a knob this Jane person is.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/04/2020 03:47

harvest the otherwise worthless cis women for their blood"

Not if it will put actual people males at risk though... there may have to be "forcible" testing first!

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/04/2020 03:28

There seemed to be no acknowledgement, or even awareness, that the hyperbolically lamented “rise in transphobia” was actually a direct result of their overstepping the mark, both in demands and in the threats they made

As an ongoing real life case study in collective psychology it's fascinating. I'm not sure anything could breach the bubble at this point. When the backlash comes they will be genuinely surprised.

So - fingers crossed - it emerges there is a chance that plasma transfusions may be an effective coronavirus treatment.

I've been wondering when doctors would try this. Looks encouraging so far, but if it gets more media attention no doubt we'll see a wave of "harvest the otherwise worthless cis women for their blood" comments.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/04/2020 01:28

Guardian 7/4/2020

Hahaha no wokery! My version of "no Popery"

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/04/2020 01:23

That's really encouraging, Kantastic

StrangeLookingParasite · 08/04/2020 00:18

Oh wow. You think Fae might be in deep cover?

Maybe that's a good strategy for dealing with this person? Taking everything as satire.