Hungary's Orban reversing self-ID

As usual, Bindel is spot on. Pink News, otoh, gives not a single fuck about human rights in general and thus won't have noticed that the Hungarian government has been pissing all over them for quite some time now.

?

Hungary is fucked. The man is a nightmare and has just put himself in power forever.

Idaho? They are seriously anti abortion aren't they?

These people are no friends of women, gay people, letting people including those who prefer to adopt the typical clothes etc of the other sex.

Is this thread about screenshots to show that GC women are right wing nutters?

MedusasButterDish
That link puts it all into perspective. Thankyou.

In terms of getting a “not dictator” to do it, there’s been progress in Idaho this week

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/idaho-governor-antitrangender-lgbt-us-bills-legislation-a9439621.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1585702821

There has to be a third way.
If it mean anything at all: I'm with you - and I know I'm not alone, either.

It's a NO, FUCK THE FUCK OFF! to TRAs seeking to undermine women's rights and out entitlement to define who we are as a class in the name of identity politics.

It's also a decided NO, FUCK THE FUCK OFF, I'M NOT FALLING FOR YOUR CRAP AND WOMEN AND MINORITIES ARE NOT SACRIFICIAL LAMBS to the likes of Orban and his fascist mates, though!

I'm on my umpteenth name change, so I've been here before and have posted and read along.

But THIS is the hill that I am personally going to die on if needs must!

Much better article by Julie Bindel;

''Hungary is a country close to my heart. I have spent a fair bit of time there investigating violence against women and girls, including trafficking into the sex trade, baby farming and adoption scams. I have become friends with feminist campaigners there, as well as others on the progressive Left. For some years now, many small and barely funded NGOs have been stripped of the right to organise — charities that help victims of sexual assault, gypsies and travellers, asylum seekers and minorities, all of whom suffer grotesque human rights violations.

And things are about to get a whole lot worse for a lot of people as Viktor Orban plans a further clampdown on human rights.''

unherd.com/thepost/the-orban-decree-is-scary-but-its-about-more-than-trans-rights/

Quite! And I really hate to be reduced to the simplistic invocation of Godwin's Law... but I am afraid there is currently a danger of appeasing fascists to keep Stalinists in check.... There has to be a third way.

@MedusasButterDish, thank you! This is such a great article and it does a really good job of outlining the feedback mechanism between radical TRAs on the one hand and scary fucking fascists on the other!

Julie Bindel has written something to provide wider focus: unherd.com/thepost/the-orban-decree-is-scary-but-its-about-more-than-trans-rights/

It really is about more than the trans issue:

The Bill is proposing an indefinite state of emergency under which the government will suspend whichever laws it chooses and impose up to five years of imprisonment for those media refusing to be part of the government propaganda machine. It is preparing to wriggle out of the European Convention on Human Rights obligations, which will put all vulnerable citizens at risk of abuse and discrimination.

Right now, Hungary is an EU country that is becoming a totalitarian regime. I am hoping that all progressives unite against Orban and his quest for totalitarianism — and look at the wider picture. This obsessive, disproportionate focus on the rights of transgender people to self-identify gets much more traction in the press than does the global pandemic of violence against lesbians.

It is time that the transgender rights lobby recognises that there are many other groups at risk under totalitarian regimes, and that those to blame are the fascists, not the feminists.

This is one for all or most of us. If bloody Pink News trying to make it all about one constituency causes mainstream opinion to believe it doesn't affect so many more interests, and to turn away, then Pink News is actually helping Orban. PN think they're the canary in the coalmine, but are the boy who cried wolf. Let's remember that others suffered from the irresponsibility of that watcher! (Perhaps the moral of the story is: don't send a boy to do a canary's job!!)

We need the left and centre to provide a lead in this, not fascist tyrants.

why not right?
left and center(some of) is leading gender ideology and right is
against it.
but right is bad and have to wait until left suddenly wake up?

The left might not have a spotless record on women's issues. Far from it, in fact. But to insinuate that women should look to the right for support is rather like suggesting people move into a cardboard box underneath a bridge if their house is a bit cramped and has no garden!

I’m not trying to insinuate anything. People can vote how they like, it doesn’t bother me, my only concern is my own vote.

The left at the moment can’t even seem to define what a woman actually is, they might want to sort that out before attempting to lift up that heavy bus to rescue the women(?) under it.

There’s one side hell bent on throwing women around the globe under the bus, and it isn’t the right, right now.

That'd be because, according to the radical right, women ought to be born under a bus and stay there until the day we shuffle off this mortal coil. Which does a neat job of eliminate any need for throwing.

The left might not have a spotless record on women's issues. Far from it, in fact. But to insinuate that women should look to the right for support is rather like suggesting people move into a cardboard box underneath a bridge if their house is a bit cramped and has no garden!

I probably agree with many fascists re biological reality, no doubt also that grass is green, water is wet & beating someone to a pulp is dangerous for their health.

Spot on! Just as you can still be friends with someone who's on the opposite side of the Great Marmite Divide.

We need the left and centre to provide a lead in this, not fascist tyrants.

Exactly.

@GeordieTerf
It's so disappointing that the right wing are the only ones stopping this. I think that this will lead to increased support for them, and decreased support for the left

I don’t understand your comment... you are sad that your views are being stuck up for, but wish your views were being stood up for by a group that has expressed they are not going to stand up for your views? Party politics, and a left/right-black/white divide clearly demonstrated by that comment of yours. The left doesn’t want you or appreciate your way of thinking. They have literally told you they don’t want you voting for them if your thinking is “wrong”. What more can it take to get it through to you?

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

I can't bring myself to welcome this, given the context. Orban is a tyrant and I can't see how Hungary can stay in the EU if this carries on.

Does a country have to collectively pretend sex isn’t real and is just a concept that people can change whenever they want to be a member of the EU then? Maybe it’s a good thing Brexit happened. I certainly don’t want citizens in my country to be regulated by that sort of rule.

@CheriLittlebottom

This is the problem with the left welcoming every batshit ideology going. People don't like it, people can recognise reality and will vote for the only other option, even if they have to hold their nose to do it.

Right.

@veryboredtoday

I don't welcome this approach as it's a step far too far back. However I lay much of the blame on the left and their denial of reality for it happening.
I've long thought the push from the militant transactivists will do more harm for the transgender community in the long run and this is evidence of that.

Right.

@DrLadybits

Penis news should never be used as a source of unbiased journalism on the topic and neither, alas, should the Guardian.

However, I can’t imagine Orbán is a friend of women or trans women, though he is no fool, and knows which populist policies will be welcome. The left’s overreach on trans rights has left it unsupported by the general public, we’ve all be shouting from the sidelines saying the same, and were told to fuck of and join the tories.

Right.

And people are lamenting the left. What has the left done for you lately? Apart from shouting at you, demeaning you and telling you your opinions aren’t worth anything? And people still want to cling onto the left because they think the right is bad. There’s one side hell bent on throwing women around the globe under the bus, and it isn’t the right, right now. But people clamber to be “right on” and right and so continue to cling desperately onto something that isn’t likely to happen any time soon. Because they’re so worried that they won’t be seen as right if they’re not left. Puzzling.

Not a good thing in any way. This regime is not concerned about the rights of women, gay rights, or actually any human rights. I probably agree with many fascists re biological reality, no doubt also that grass is green, water is wet & beating someone to a pulp is dangerous for their health. We need the left and centre to provide a lead in this, not fascist tyrants.

I will never be glad for fascism.

Never.

Previous thread on gender studies in Hungary:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3457603-gender-study-ban

Orban is bloody terrifying.
He isn’t gender critical, in so far as we know he thinks about gender, it seems to be AOK by him as the age old enforcing mechanism for patriarchy. So women, LGB people, trans people will all suffer for it. This is very scary and I hope the EU will be acting against him (I don’t know what their options are but they can’t do nothing).

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/02/hungary-to-end-legal-recognition-of-trans-people-amid-covid-19-crisis

The pandering of the Left and Centre-Left around the world to Identity politics and all sorts of batshit crazy SJW pet causes, has and will continue to fuel the move towards more extreme right-wing political parties.

As said by another poster, I want the freedom to openly discuss the pitfalls and drawbacks pushed by trans extremism, not to have fascist leaders enact policies that make the lives of women, LGB and trans people difficult and dangerous.

Oh I don't know. I have a theory - its called the 'Knicker Elastic Theory' (TM Lordfrontpaw).

Push so hard one way and there is a backlash when you go too far, and it snaps back to worse/better than before.

Any lobby group with a brain knows, the further you force the pendulum in one direction, the harder and further you make the swing back.

yes there never was self ID in Hungary but it doesnt make what he's doing any less abhorent. He's hugely homophobic and misogynstic.

Indeed. Below a snippet from last year re. Orban on women. Management summary: keep them barefoot and pregnant in order to outbreed them dirty immigrants!

I'm dead serious when I call him a bona fide fascist!

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/10/viktor-orban-no-tax-for-hungarian-women-with-four-or-more-children

yes there never was self ID in Hungary but it doesnt make what he's doing any less abhorent. He's hugely homophobic and misogynstic. LGB people will suffer under his regime - indeed they already are suffering

I dont want Self ID but I dont want this fascist twat either

He is a fascist though.