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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Your Gender? A Friendly Guide to the Public Debate - a male philosopher writes at length on an issue he clearly doesn't understand

59 replies

stumbledin · 01/04/2020 23:44

I realise this is nothing new, but here is the latest example of how academics, especially male ones, think they can turn a real life issue for women into a paper to add to their CV.

The blog post is open for comments, but maybe the best thing is it having no comments to illustrate nobody cares what he thinks!

Published by Practical Ethics of University of Oxford blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2020/03/what-is-your-gender-a-friendly-guide-to-the-public-debate/

OP posts:
LadyQuarantinaPluckington · 02/04/2020 12:49

Whenever I read these things now, I tend to have the theme tune to Two and a Half men in the back of my head...

ScapaFlo · 02/04/2020 12:32

The first several thousand words could have been covered by "I'm a man"

MayTheGodsBeEverInYourFavour · 02/04/2020 12:31

The best thing to do if you meet somebody who says, “I’m a woman,” or whatever, is just to talk to them, hear their story, and let them tell you what’s important about their life. Hahaha. Like Brian would ever do that. He'd be too busy trying to butt in with his POV.

LadyQuarantinaPluckington · 02/04/2020 12:02

Yeah, I think 'three drinks in' is probably 6 for the poor pub date, but Brian hasn't noticed because he's too busy with the sound of his own opining. Not sure at what point she will have texted her mates to ask them to phone her with a fake emergency, but I would think it's way before he makes his sexy suggestion of penile/vaginal intercourse.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/04/2020 12:00

I'd be all "oh will you look at the time, I have to go hoover my cat and power wash the linoleum" before I'd finished the first drink.

Clymene · 02/04/2020 11:34

Christ, I can't imagine any woman gets 'three drinks in' without going to the loo and trying to figure out if she can fit through the window to escape from Brian's mansplaining.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 02/04/2020 11:26

Bloody hell that was made for “TLDR” the major error (after publishing) was to “lightly” edit his talk.
I could let you know that, under the right conditions, I would be able to engage in penile-vaginal intercourse if it was consensual, and so forth.
Never even once has this chap given a women the Fanny gallops Confused

RoyalCorgi · 02/04/2020 11:20

Brian needs to do less talking and more listening.

Oddly, that's one of ways you can tell he's a man.

MrsDoylesTeaBags · 02/04/2020 11:03

Jesus Christ, he might not know definitively if he is a man or a woman or indeed what a man or woman is, but he sure can talk a load of bollocks.

There’s no “manness” written in my genes.
No self awareness either.

littlbrowndog · 02/04/2020 10:58

Omg. I never tried to read such blah blah in my life. Haha. Is he Trolling ?

I mean no one would ever take it seriously

Gwynfluff · 02/04/2020 10:19

Sorry italics fail

Gwynfluff · 02/04/2020 10:18

Suzanne Moore’s piece was some just relating their experiences as a woman and look what happened. If you’re looking for examples of being subject to to violence, mistreatment, stigmatization, are not taken seriously, and can often suffer very severely because of that

CassieAuLait · 02/04/2020 09:37

The best thing to do if you meet somebody who says, “I’m a transgender person,” or “I’m non-binary,” or whatever, is just to talk to them, hear their story, and let them tell you what’s important about their life

Well yes. That goes for meeting anyone as it happens. And Brian, if you meet me, just talk with me, hear my story, and listen while I tell you the story of my life. Naturally I will return the compliment because I don’t generally tear down the patriarchy man by man at the start of any conversation.

CassieAuLait · 02/04/2020 09:31

Compare these two introductions to gender and sex based approach;

Let’s say that you’re really strong in the transgender ally community. You’re concerned with the fact that people who have transgender identities, who are trying to live out the gender that they regard themselves as, and by which they understand their experience and can make coherent their inner life, are subjected to violence, mistreatment, stigmatization, are not taken seriously, and can often suffer very severely because of that

On the other side of the debate, there are people who go by various names, and they’re all controversial. But among the less controversial names would be “Gender Critical Feminists” […] and they have a different purpose. Their purpose is something like tearing down male supremacy. That’s maybe their primary political purpose. They want to fight the patriarchy, which involves people who are perceived as having certain reproductive features being systematically treated differently in a society

You v They

Trans people are subjected to violence, mistreatment, stigmatization, are not taken seriously, and can often suffer very severely because of that

Women are People who are perceived from a young age to have female reproductive features tend to be systematically disadvantaged along numerous dimensions in societies that are patriarchal

(No mention of rape violence or ‘suffering severely because of that’)

His understanding of testosterone, yes you would need to check the levels, but testosterone (where there is no DSD, difference of sexual development) IS distributed in a binary way between the sexes: female, across a short spectrum with a tiny amount, then a massive jump to male, also on a spectrum but all with far more than the highest female.

It isn’t a spectrum with overlap and an arbitrary line half way along delineating m/f

Basically he is a pompous patronising prat with no self reflection (“I hope I haven’t shown my hand too much about the way that I think”) who sounds as if he is telling women what to think and how to feel.

AnyOldSpartabix · 02/04/2020 09:20

Is the word "friendly" identifying as including the concept "patronizing as fuck" these days?

Paired with “guide”. Maybe it’s a girl guide. Brian isn’t knowledgeable enough to guide anyone. This is a masterpiece of mansplaining.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/04/2020 08:56

The best thing to do if you meet somebody who says, “I’m a transgender person,” or “I’m non-binary,” or whatever, is just to talk to them, hear their story, and let them tell you what’s important about their life.

I have much better and more important things to do with my life, thanks Brian.

Winesalot · 02/04/2020 08:43

Again, falling back on DSD as a support for a debate.

stumbledin
I couldn’t finish as my eyes had rolled out of my head. This beard has significantly made a point though. I feel for future generations if you have to have conversations that come down to what working body parts do you have that you were born with to size up a sexual partner. And it is scary to think of the reaction when someone is rejected because ‘no I want a born vagina and clitoris not a ‘neo’ fashioned one.

He has highlighted how fraught the future could be for pub pickups. And how complicated a small group needing constant validation could make navigating the dating pool.

Cornhole · 02/04/2020 08:36

This reply has been deleted

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midcenturylegs · 02/04/2020 08:32

Ugh. In his recommended reading "by me and colleagues" he cites this (which don't have the stomach to read right now):

Earp, B. D. (2020). Gender or genital autonomy? Why framing nontherapeutic genital cutting as a children’s rights issue is both ethically and pragmatically necessary. Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology Canada, 42(2), e17. Available at T

MayTheGodsBeEverInYourFavour · 02/04/2020 08:27

I saw a YT video recently about the backlash against the intense pressure for South Koreans, especially women, to conform to impossible beauty ideals. They are cutting their hair, eschewing makeup, choosing comfortable clothing, & often risking public abuse to do so. One of the women interviewed says, right at the end, "This is feminine. I'm a woman. What a woman is & what a woman does is feminine".

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/04/2020 08:20

I want to know if anyone has ever fallen asleep while Brian was educating them.

OneEpisode · 02/04/2020 08:14

Some of those views are ok it’s just...so so boring. I think it’s a lack of bravery. For instance this bit, he gets that it’s stereotypes, but possibly thinks it’s what the TRA’s believe, innate, but doesn’t quite say that:
“I want to know whether you find yourself intuitively and irresistibly drawn toward, and resonating with, ways of behaving, dressing, interacting with others, engaging with cultural artifacts, and so forth, that are stereotypically feminized or masculinized in our culture.”

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 02/04/2020 08:08

I want to know whether you can engage in penile-vaginal intercourse unassisted.

How very rude! 'I just want to know if you can get it up'

Jesus, no, with that kind of talk I don't think he's ever seen a clitoris...

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/04/2020 08:05

I would be able to engage in penile-vaginal intercourse

Yes, Brian, but from which direction, as it were? These things are important to the randy and unenlightened amongst us.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/04/2020 08:02

Is the word "friendly" identifying as including the concept "patronizing as fuck" these days? Every day is a school day when the actual schools are shut apparently.