“Woman” cleared in child BDSM case (Canada, where else?)

I think people who truly want trans rights should also be concerned about self id, though I am not going to concern troll and pretend we necessarily want the exact same things. I see many statistics put out that trans women are the victims of rape and violence, but it seems often to counter any kind of criticism when stuff like this comes up. But if you're truly concerned about people facing violence above all else, people like this slipping in the cracks should concern them. I feel like the really loud advocates on twitter and stuff though are just misogynists. Why would I want to include these vocal misogynists in my feminism when they have as much contempt for mouthy women as MRAs?

Thanks MrsDoylesTeaBags and DeathRayStare - found it on iPlayer

"The Americas" with Simon Reeve - Episode 1

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00095nt

"Simon Reeve begins his most ambitious journey yet: travelling the entire length of the Americas, north to south. In this first leg of his epic journey, Simon travels from the frozen beauty of Alaska down through Canada to Vancouver and the border with the United States.

Landing on a huge glacier in Alaska’s Denali National Park, Simon witnesses firsthand the brutal impact of global climate change in the remote north of the planet – ice is receding here at an alarming rate. Hunting caribou with Native Americans, Simon also hears both sides of the debate about President Trump’s plans to open the Arctic National Wilderness Reserve to oil drilling. Canada has a much greener reputation than its powerful neighbour, as Simon learns in the Yukon while sharing a bizarre cocktail containing a frozen human toe with an off-grid character called Caveman Bill. But Canada has many of its own problems: in the wealthy hipster paradise of Vancouver, Simon meets the people saving lives in the midst of a brutal opioid addiction crisis that has cost so many lives across the North American continent.

Author and broadcaster Simon Reeve is one of the BBC’s most popular presenters and this series marks his biggest project yet. Meeting engaging and colourful characters along the way, Simon’s adventure uncovers a side to the Americas rarely seen, highlighting serious social and political issues alongside the epic landscapes and sheer fun of an endlessly fascinating part of the world."

Did anyone see the Simon Reeve series about The Americas? The episode about Canada was eye opening and jaw dropping.

Yes I mentioned it at the time on the tv page. I was like "What?". It was a tiny piece and we only got a glimpse into what is happening to those women.

I thought I had seen that photo somewhere before - I don't know if the newspaper reports contain as much revolting detail about the mother's treatment of her children as here. Seriously, this is stomach-churning - be warned 😱

www.womenarehuman.com/accused-bdsm-child-rapist-transgender-goes-free-after-victim-is-unable-to-recall-details-of-assaults-jacquelyn-laronde-ne-sean-otoole/

Maybe someone from Canada knows how to find a link to the actual judgement?

I know, Goosefoot, I just think many people find it understandably hard to stay calm when discussing subjects like this. If I didn't have an amount of rage and disgust I'd be fucking weeping. I think strong emotional reactions are to be expected. Normal, even. People criticise the courts because the whole situation is so fucking unfair, and foul, and wrong, and sickening.

There may be issues with how the article was written. It looks like it was a long and complicated trial, or series of trials. There are many other articles on it, but I'm going to stop searching for them now as they're quite upsetting. I reserve my rage for the people convicted.

I don't see talking about the reporting as having anything to do with rage. People are upset about the judgement, or want to comment on it, but it's very difficult without a good explanation from the journalists. This is a bit of a pattern with these discussions that I see here, there criticism of the courts but it's often very unclear why the decision was made, and so the criticism doesn't necessarily reflect what the real problem is.

Laronde is a program co-ordinator for gender and sexually diverse youth for Canadian Mental Health Association, Kingston, and active in the city’s Pride community

Oh god no, no. Someone who takes part in BDSM orgies in a house full of children? At least one only eight years old? And where a co-defendant has admitted filming child abuse?

And the Canadian Mental Health Association appointed this person to work with children?

Shame on the Canadian authorities.

There may be issues with how the article was written. It looks like it was a long and complicated trial, or series of trials. There are many other articles on it, but I'm going to stop searching for them now as they're quite upsetting.

I reserve my rage for the people convicted.

And another

'Laronde is a program co-ordinator for gender and sexually diverse youth for Canadian Mental Health Association, Kingston, and active in the city’s Pride community.'

lfpress.com/2017/02/03/parent-in-kid-sex-case-remains-free/wcm/708c160d-e3f8-2ea1-a420-1bafd3392af6

What a horrible, horrible situation to grow up in. Nothing to be said about it that isn't a sickening understatement, really.

Here's a different article from a different paper.

www.chathamdailynews.ca/2017/02/02/child-sex-abuse-a-london-man-is-one-of-two-people-charged-in-historic-sexual-abuse-case/wcm/38b87802-1ff4-b37a-9cfc-7daa140497ab

I agree, Goosefoot. The excuse for hoovering up that exceptionally poor article in a paper known for rabble-rousting and using it to beat a nation's entire judicial system isn't good enough.

There's a bit too much of this on MN at the moment, I'm afraid.

It's not a matter of misreporting as such, so much as being terribly unclear. The reason they give for saying the testimony was a problem seems incomplete, or lacking in context. It doesn't make sense. A good journalist would make it clear what the reasoning was, even if it was illogical, but this doesn't read like that.

Even in good papers, it's common for reports about judgements to be lacking, even misleading. It's the same as when they report on other technical subjects, the reporters often don't seem to have the background to understand the judgements themselves, much less explain them to anyone else.

I have as much faith in the Toronto Sun as I do in the UK Sun.

Singasonga, if a newspaper misreports a court case it faces very expensive penalties. It's not worth doing, no matter what you think of the newspaper.

Extraordinary. From reading the Toronto Sun story, the mother and daughter disagreed about the order in which three men came to the house on the girl's 13th birthday.

Why did the judge choose to believe the mother, who is already in prison for abusing one of her other children? and who ran BDSM sessions in a house where children as young as eight years old lived?

We know child sex abuse was being committed during the BDSM sessions, because one of the defendants pleaded guilty to making 'child pornography'.

Why does it matter what order the men arrived in, 17 years ago? A traumatised child is going to blank out as much as she can of the abuse she suffered over at least five years.

Justice definitely not done.

I have as much faith in the Toronto Sun as I do in the UK Sun.

Canada has been extremely enthusiastic about self ID. There have been multiple examples, including a rape crisis centre losing its funding, and a very questionable character taking many women to court because they refused to wax testicles.

'Canada, where else?'

^

What's that supposed to mean?

This is shocking. I wouldn't be surprised if some vigilante action comes out of this.

I have to say, I don't feel like this article is very clear about why the judgement went the way it did. It sounds like the judge believes the young woman, but wasn't able to convict because of problems with the evidence, and to me that doesn't seem like a matter of people not caring about abuse. It sounds a bit like there might be some question as to whether the men were identified correctly, but it's just so unclear.

FWIW as Canadian I don't think Canadians overall are blasé about sex crimes against minors. The problems here are similar to elsewhere where meeting the kinds of proofs required by courts is very difficult, and it seems increasingly so.

Christ Almighty.

First of all, why wasn't this a jury trial? What's wrong with Canada?

Second - and this absolutely beggars belief - why was the mother's testimony given more weight than the daughter's? The mother, who had a string of BDSM partners, is clearly an unreliable witness who had little regard for her own daughter's safety.

Third - well, all the other shit. Let's face it, if this man had been found guilty he'd have been sent to a women's prison where he could have abused to his heart's content.

I used to admire Canada many long years ago.

Did anyone see the Simon Reeve series about The Americas? The episode about Canada was eye opening and jaw dropping.

I think Canada does a good PR job of looking progressive and forward thinking, while the indigenous communities, particularly women and the poor are treated with contempt.

Canada is a one hell of a fucked up country.

I'm glad that I live in the UK