Mermaids is encouraging children to hide online searches from their parents

No, the above is a suggestion to investigate those that make the claim or present with the symptoms to a medical professional .

NHS England guidelines for children who present with possible 'gender identity' issue:
www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/gender-development-service-children-adolescents.pdf

In UK, the 'Memorandum of Understanding' limits the scope of medical professionals' interventions with children whose confusion/distress is associated with 'gender identity'

2017 Transgender Trend:
'Children Left Unprotected By New Memorandum Of Understanding On Conversion Therapy'
(extract)
"Of course, we support the original Memorandum of Understanding on Conversion Therapy which outlaws attempts to change a person’s sexual orientation. But ‘gender identity’ should not be conflated with sexual orientation as if the two things are essentially the same issue. For gender dysphoria, the choice of approach is between ‘affirmation’ and ‘watchful waiting’ but its inclusion in the Memorandum suggests that the watchful waiting approach could be considered to be conversion therapy if a child subsequently desists.

What it means is that for a health practitioner to offer any therapeutic support or exploration of underlying factors, motives or reasons for a cross-sex identity in childhood they are now taking a professional risk. Instead, a practitioner must confirm and therefore reinforce a child’s belief that they really are the opposite sex. If a boy thinks he’s a girl, he’s a girl. If a girl believes herself to be a boy, she’s a boy, no questions allowed.

No concession is given to children and young people whose identities are in development and highly susceptible to influence from parents, peers and professionals as well as an increasingly powerful transgender lobby. ‘Affirmation’ is not a neutral approach, it is a strong statement of belief that a girl can be born in a boy’s body and vice versa. No practitioner should be imposing false and non-scientific beliefs on a child or young person or knowingly mislead them about reality." (continues)
www.transgendertrend.com/children-left-unprotected-by-new-memorandum-of-understanding-on-conversion-therapy/

Mermaids is targeting children, many of who have other issues such as autism or mental health issues, some are being bullied for being GNC or are victims of grooming.

Which is why like in many areas of medicine it is likely that a good percentage of those referred will see no more than assessment and discharge from GIDS back to their GP. If you know of grooming though, please report it to those who can investigate.

I cannot believe that anyone would even be arguing the toss over this.

I can. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

the number of GNC children who think they may be trans in a school in Brighton is not the same as the number as those diagnosed and treated

This is meaningless in terms of what mermaids are doing. They're not saying they only support people who have had a diagnosis. (Which, according to the criteria, the tick list, almost anyone could have).

Transgender ideology is been promoted in school. Now 76 children in one school think they are trans. Mermaids is telling them it's fine to keep secrets from their parents.

Where is the list from mermaids that details exactly what kind of parents they are referring to??

I cannot believe that anyone would even be arguing the toss over this.

Which is not what Mermaids do, or what they encourage the relevant NHS services to do. They have rather notably clashed with the Tavistock over their belief that any sort of investigation rather than automatic affirmation and commencement of treatment is transphobic.

I realize that having the fundamental selfishness of your position pointed out may sting a bit, but unfortunately that doesn't mean that the person doing so is wrong.

Ha ha R0wan beat me as always!

Owen Jones has accused Janice Turner of bigotry for pointing out that this is a tactic deployed by child groomers
As I recall, Owen Jones also described as bigotry any disquiet over the behaviour of NSPCCs very own rubber man.

Owen Jones has accused Janice Turner of bigotry for pointing out that this is a tactic deployed by child groomers

Owen Jones accused people who recognised the Safeguarding issues with Munroe Bergdorf being an NSPCC ambassador (suggestions children contact directly via social media) as being transphobic. They weren't transphobic, they were correct about the Safeguarding issue.
www.spectator.co.uk/article/munroe-bergdorf-the-nspcc-and-the-failure-of-the-media

Owen Jones accused people who recognised the Safeguarding issues when an NSPCC employee (James Makings) was posting his sexual fetish from work as being homophobic. They weren't homophobic, they were correct about the Safeguarding issues.

uncommongroundmedia.com/nspcc-employee-films-himself-masturbating-at-work/

Regrettably children and their safety and welfare are mere collateral to those in pursuit of an ideology. It's a consistent theme in relation to all sorts of cults and narcissistic individuals.
The fact that sunlight is being shed on this is most unwelcome to these people.

The above is in effect a suggestion that we sacrifice all the "non genuine" children caught up in this and shrug as they're subjected to unnecessary medical treatment for the sake of the "minute few". That is not an ethically acceptable position, imo.

No, the above is a suggestion to investigate those that make the claim or present with the symptoms to a medical professional . The study which is oft referred to from 2011 suggestsof those that do, over 84% will go on to have no treatment at all.

Of course, if you want them to be ignored then you need to make a louder representation for that as the NHS as it stands does listen to them.

Bovary

Trans lobbyists may well try to step on your freedom of speech but, trans lobbyists are all too often confused with trans people in general. As for Harry, I happen to agree with the judgement in that i thought the officer did not deal with it very well. I expect an officer with greater experience could have made Harry feel quite small about his tweets without the need to be formal.

I was really pleased to see his main goal of overturning the COP guidance for hate recording was declined, preventing a free speech bonanza free for all manner of minorities though. Phew, that could have been unpleasant. Perhaps the Supreme Court will see it differently?

The above is in effect a suggestion that we sacrifice all the "non genuine" children caught up in this and shrug as they're subjected to unnecessary medical treatment for the sake of the "minute few". That is not an ethically acceptable position, imo.

Datun

Our experiences are both relevant to the discussion as they are points of view no doubt informed by our own experiences. I agree that neither are likely to be significant drivers in the decisions around future treatment protocols.

The only reliable statistics on the number of trans youth or at least those who think they are comes from GIDS in the UK. In the last five years just under 9000 referrals out of circa 12.5 million under 18's or about 0.072%. But, the number of referrals to GIDS, or the number of GNC children who think they may be trans in a school in Brighton is not the same as the number as those diagnosed and treated so it is likely to be somewhat less than 0.072% of all under 18's who present during childhood. So, I imagine those numbers would be unreliable in informing a treatment protocol.

As for how many people think they are trans and why, i would not presume to know. I would guess that most in that particular Brighton school aren't but personally, i wouldn't be cruel enough based on that guess to want to leave the minute few who are floundering in the distress that i have experienced without clinical assessment.

Even if we were to assume that the motivations of the people at Mermaids were good (which I do not) it's clear that they're completely clueless as to proper safeguarding procedures and basic, commonly understood guidelines about how to communicate with children. You do not encourage children to lie to their parents, because that's dangerous. You do not encourage children to conceal their online activities from their parents, because the internet is full of predators and even if they're OK this time they might not be the next time. And so on.

I'm sure they'd happy to hear your peer reviewed and tested alternatives for people in the same position.

We all would - I wonder why no-one is doing those studies? Or the ones with decent follow up on the affirmation model (the ones I've seen have terrible dropout rates)

beauty and sometimes lack of clarity of language often results in freedom of speech so, ambiguity can be positive too

statsgeek
What incoherent nonsense. Freedom of speech is under existential threat from trans lobbyists whose spurious accusations of hate speech were explicitly identified as a tactic by Harry Miller's judge. The primary function of language is to communicate. The concerted attempt to sever the relationship between words and external reality, to deconstruct meaning, isn't being done to promote 'beauty' or 'freedom of speech'. It is being done because of a sinister Orwellian belief that those who control language can bend external reality to their fantasy. This authoritarian nonsense should be robustly resisted.

Seriously in that i had a medical condition as described in the ICD which in my case needed medical and surgical intervention to improve it. No validation, just symptoms, a diagnosis and in my case a successful treatment.

Based on Harry Benjamin's theories & standards?

stoptransingkids.wordpress.com/2019/05/11/who-was-harry-benjamin/

@StatsGeek1

Mermaids is targeting children, many of who have other issues such as autism or mental health issues, some are being bullied for being GNC or are victims of grooming.

You, by your own admission, are an adult XY person who is legally competent and able To give informed consent. This isn’t about you. Safeguarding isn’t about you. It’s about children.

Please stop trying to make this about you and your own medical issues and treatment . That’s between you and your doctors.

statsgeek1

Neither your personal experience, nor mine is relevant. I'd like to see the studies that show validating young children and teenagers produces long term positive results.

Surely must know how many youngsters are saying they are trans on the basis of being gender nonconforming, or gay, being autistic and not fitting in or suffering from some kind of trauma, often sexual.

What is the reason you believe there are so many young children who are saying they are Trans? 76 in one Brighton school, for instance.

July 2019 James Kirkup for The Spectator

'It’s time to listen to the NHS gender clinic whistleblowers'
www.spectator.co.uk/article/it-s-time-to-listen-to-the-nhs-gender-clinic-whistleblowers

BMJ Published 29 October 2018
'Redesigning gender identity services: an opportunity to generate evidence'
authors: Richard Byng, general practitioner and professor in primary care research, Susan Bewley, emeritus professor of obstetrics and women’s health, Damian Clifford, consultant liaison psychiatrist, Margaret McCartney, general practitioner and freelance writer
(extracts)
"A recent feature in The BMJ implied that new services are all that’s needed to improve transgender healthcare. Providing timely, sensitive services for all, including those who decide to not pursue treatment or detransition, is important. But the article did not question the steep rise in referrals of mainly young women or the potential harms of medical overdiagnosis and overtreatment" (continues)

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles

Datun

Seriously in that i had a medical condition as described in the ICD which in my case needed medical and surgical intervention to improve it. No validation, just symptoms, a diagnosis and in my case a successful treatment. Of course, I'm sure they'd happy to hear your peer reviewed and tested alternatives for people in the same position.

Yes, Codename, this is one of the most distressing parts of organisations like Mermaids - they are deliberately manufacturing a sense of being 'abused' in children and young people, and setting up a medicated and surgically altered life as the non-abusive 'freedom' option.

Any adult wishing to overlay their own experiences onto an organization behaving in such a way needs to step back and address their complicity in this kind of abuse, for the sake of their own 'validation'.

And don't worry, statsgeek, any and all legal means of bringing Mermaids to book as a dangerous organization are being pursued. But let no reader be deceived - this is an influential organization with connections and funding that will not be eager to relinquish their position. Just remember their definition of 'helping children' means something very different to what most understand by that.

Before you say anything stats, I don't think that being gay is an identity, either.

Also, while I'm on, could you bold the paragraphs you are copying from peoples posts? You just put an asterisk either side of the paragraph with no spaces.

It makes it much clearer.

Fueling childrens sense of victimhood by the people in their lives is a classic grooming method. It uses their immaturity and neivety to seperate them from the people who are most likely to protect them.