Please can we talk about using the name Karen as an insult?

"She's so far removed from actual hardship that she makes herself a pain in the arse for everyone else with trivial crap like not getting re-imbursed for service she wasn't pleased with..."

The same people saying this are most likely also the one who defended Sam Smith, because 'everyone's struggles are real and valid'. Hypocrites.

I’ve never heard Kevin used like that in the UK - but it sounds like you’re saying people are specifically being derogatory to men called Kevin, not calling men Kevin as a misandrist trope? That’s a bit different albeit still
unacceptable behaviour.

If someone said ‘he’s such a Kevin’ here (UK) I’d assume it was a reference to the Harry Enfield character Kevin the Teenager. I think referencing a specific person/character is a bit different than just assigning unflattering characteristics/stereotype to a name, and then using that to shut down and silence women.

Brenda has 2 associations for me - one is the ‘Brenda Line’ - a service the Samaritans provided in the 80s for telephone masturbators, to try and free up their helplines, staffed by older no-nonsense women who would listen dispassionately whilst the masturbators did their thing, and all used the pseudonym Brenda. The other is ‘Brenda from Bristol’, the real woman whose reaction to being told on local news there was an election (“another one!?!” in a broad West Country accent) went viral a few years ago, and came to represent the general public’s fatigue with Westminster.

But again associations with real people/characters is different from the recent Karen thing, which seems to have started online specifically to bully women.

I also, respect to previous poster as I understand your sensitivity, but I disagree with use of ‘Bob’ as a placeholder name in the example you have is comparable to the Karen memes either. It’s just a common name. There isn’t a trope that Bob is a paedophilic exhibitionist and it isn’t used to generally slur men of a specific generation.

Kevin, on the other hand, implies a problematic socio-economic background. Kevin is undesirable because Kevin is poor. We might say it's because he's stupid or anti-social - but really what it boils down to is: Kevin is not from a naice family. He belongs to the great unwashed. And we all know what to expect from them, don't we? So, Kevin is inherent to Kevin.

In the UK, I think Karen could be changed to Kevin and the above would apply. Karen might not be stupid, but she's definitely not from a naice social class, QED how dare she complain?

People who share Karen memes would never say in real life that Karen is the chav who got above herself. But it's what they mean.

Self-entitlement and getting your knickers in a twist (also pretty sexist as an idiom, actually, seeing as "knickers" only ever refers to underwear for female humans ...) over trivial stuff are just generally petty and unpleasant behaviours in anyone

Who gets to decide what is "trivial"?

Yet men who behave in exactly the same way don't have silly memes dedicated to them. They are just getting "re-imbursed" and then go happily on their way? Yeah, that's fair.

No, it isn't. "Karen" is clearly misogynistic. But, also: "Karen" calls out behaviours that aren't technically desirable in either sex. Self-entitlement and getting your knickers in a twist (also pretty sexist as an idiom, actually, seeing as "knickers" only ever refers to underwear for female humans ...) over trivial stuff are just generally petty and unpleasant behaviours in anyone. Yes, this technically includes 86-year-old ethnic minorities on disability benefits.

It's just that, as always, men are having an easier time being dicks on account of them having dicks, I suppose.

She's so far removed from actual hardship that she makes herself a pain in the arse for everyone else with trivial crap like not getting re-imbursed for service she wasn't pleased with...

Yet men who behave in exactly the same way don't have silly memes dedicated to them. They are just getting "re-imbursed" and then go happily on their way?

Yeah, that's fair

It's just nonsense isn't it. Everyone who pays for a service is entitled to complain if what they paid for isn't delivered.

I don't use any social media apart from this site so am obvious as to whether or not "Karening" happens.

If it does, I've probably been "Karened". I could not care less. It won't stop me complaining if my complaint is justified.

Oh and I bet "Karens" also tip well and praise when service exceeds expectations.

Today I saw a FB meme, posted by a good feminist friend, about Karen.
I saw another one, but this one used the name Brenda. I think Brenda is also a thing, but not sure what exactly.

Young people think it's an old, white woman's name. Pretty sure.

She's so far removed from actual hardship that she makes herself a pain in the arse for everyone else with trivial crap like not getting re-imbursed for service she wasn't pleased with...

Yet men who behave in exactly the same way don't have silly memes dedicated to them. They are just getting "re-imbursed" and then go happily on their way?

Yeah, that's fair.

‘Kevin’ took on a whole new meaning with Kevin07 campaign for Kevin Rudd for PM in Australia. It has been around a bit in the past prior but it was never aimed at a specific socioeconomic group where I was. So that is interesting .

Expat here. One of the male equivalents is "Kevin" around here. Kevin is ... intellectually challenged and perhaps not the poster child for successful social integration, to say the least. There's a very offensive joke that goes "Kevin is not a name - it's a diagnosis".

To be honest, although I acknowledge the sexist elements within "Karen", I'm more bothered by Kevin, and here's why.

Karen is the epitome of first world problems. She's so far removed from actual hardship that she makes herself a pain in the arse for everyone else with trivial crap like not getting re-imbursed for service she wasn't pleased with. Karen is about bevahiour.

Kevin, on the other hand, implies a problematic socio-economic background. Kevin is undesirable because Kevin is poor. We might say it's because he's stupid or anti-social - but really what it boils down to is: Kevin is not from a naice family. He belongs to the great unwashed. And we all know what to expect from them, don't we? So, Kevin is inherent to Kevin.

And that's why - sexism aside - I actually think Kevin is worse. Karen can change how she acts. Kevin can't stop being Kevin.

For the record, I know two Karens personally, on of them being my aunt. Both completely unoffensive individuals. The one Kevin I know IRL is a bit entitled - but more in the vein that one would expect from someone named "Alexander Boris" and their ilk.

Just read this:

The Casual Misoguny of Karen Memes. I wonder if the author has been reading Mumsnet?

radfemrebecca.com/2019/10/21/ok-karen-the-casual-misogyny-of-karen-memes/

I hope the furore about the magnificent Karen Ingala Smith being banned from the Labour party will improve the status of her name!

Karen Ingala Smith runs the Counting Dead Women project, opposing violence against women. She would be an asset to any party. But, like Trevor Phillips, not wanted by today’s Labour Party.

It's really nasty and inappropriate and I think it is good to call it out when we hear it.

Karen is a lovely name.

I'm a Karen and hadn't realise the name was being used in a derogatory manner. It's insulting & disappointing if so, but I think it says more about the person being nasty than it does about me or any of my fellow Karens.

There's a nasty example of the use of "Karen" in this thread. It's on page 11(tbh much of the thread is pretty nasty)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3863842-A-local-shop-is-refusing-entry-to-single-parents?pg=11&order=

idont think you're making it up, i dont think its widespread though, but happy to be vigilant against it when i see it!

I love a good derail, Biologyisreal, and I see what you mean now. Very sorry about your loss.

Love, Horse xxx

Oh dear I don't seem to be being let off the hook do I?
OK, am in a rush but if you put Bob into advanced search, examples will come up.

Here's one
my HBU or was this man re. DD in changing room?

I'll just quote a paragraph to give you an idea.

*Got into the changing room to get into swim stuff. A guy (let's call him Bob) was in there. No problem. They got dressEd and. Into the pool.

Came back after to find Bob in the shower without the curtain pulled over. Bob was naked and instantly told DH to get DD out as it was the men'seeking changing room. DH says he asked the man to pull the curtain to the shower across if he was that bothered about a 4yo being in there. DH got DD dressed while the guy continuously ranted about a girl bring in the men's changing rooms while he was naked and that the mum should have been there to deal with this. Then he said they should have waited outside for him to finish (wet and cold)*

There are others.

I really am not making this up. I think, when your husband has died, you become over sensitive to things involving him, such as his name, and that is what has happened to me.

Apologies for any derailing.

.. You could, tbh, make the same argument for many groups - e.g. combat veterans, paramedics, surgeons, etc...

Yeah you could. Bit thin on the ground those groups compared with Mothers, non?

I heard of expressions like "every Tom Dick or Harry.." and yes, "Joe" public but can somebody please put me out of my misery and tell me the Robert one?

I've never heard Robert used in the same way as Karen. My lovely late father was Robert (actually Bob) so I would definately notice. I really do not think Robert is the male equivalent of Karen, at all. In fact, there is no male equivalent because it is a lazy sexist stereotype.

Ah, see I didn't realise the entire world economy has been out on hold to rescue me. Here was silly old me thinking that the most vulnerable group were men and people with underlying health conditions.

Well, thanks world, it's nice to feel important y'know?

The only U.K. equivalent for a male that I can recall seeing is ‘Gary,’ pretty sure I’ve seen ‘Don’t be a Gary,’ must have been a meme on Facebook.