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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Douglas Murray on Guardian's trans war

56 replies

BovaryX · 22/03/2020 05:21

For those looking for some amusement during these bizarre times, there is some scathing humour from Douglas Murray in the Spectator who takes aim at the Guardian and Owen Jones. The latter is apparently seeking to absolve himself of responsibility for his own signature in the notorious petition.

Nevertheless, since having his name leaked as a signatory to the letter Jones has been trying to weasel out of it, saying his name was only added at the last minute and only digitally etc, as though the other signatories had all signed their names in blood during some late night coven. I don't know why Jones is so coy about his name being found to be on the petition. After all, Jones is the only 'journalist' in Britain I can think of who has taken part in a demonstration outside the offices of a national newspaper

Douglas Murray goes on to say he hopes the Guardian will explain

why it is unacceptable to have a feminist in their pages defending women's rights

www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-Guardian-s-trans-rights-civil-war-rumbles-on

OP posts:
Babdoc · 22/03/2020 09:28

One can always campaign to change a law - that is not illegal. Paedophiles did just that in the 1970’s. But that did not allow them to publish obscene material picturing or describing their activities.

testing987654321 · 22/03/2020 09:20

It is illegal and anyone promoting it should be subject to the law.

So we can only discuss things which are legal? Are the laws we have now never to be changed? I deliberately picked a topic which most people would instinctively want to be silenced. Once you accept the principle that not everything can be discussed the only question is where to draw the line.

BovaryX · 22/03/2020 09:09

I think the problem I and many others have on the left is a tendency to find some views so unpalatable they shouldn't be allowed a platform. The problem is which views and where do you stop?

I think this is a very serious problem on the left and Suzanne Moore's denunciation is just another example of it. There is an extremely authoritarian tendency among certain left wingers which is becoming more explicit every day. There is only one viewpoint allowed on a whole range of issues which should be open to discussion and debate Trans is just one of them. But instead, a zealous orthodoxy is enforced through bullying and the idiotic paradigm of #no debate. As for paedophilia? It is illegal and anyone promoting it should be subject to the law. Another area where rigid orthodoxy to left wing tropes has been adopted is crime and punishment. If I were Mistress of the Universe, penalties for the violent abuse of women and children and anyone would become alot more draconian......

OP posts:
testing987654321 · 22/03/2020 08:53

I think the problem I and many others have on the left is a tendency to find some views so unpalatable they shouldn't be allowed a platform. The problem is which views and where do you stop?

For me, it has to be incitement to violence which should be not allowed. But then what do you do about people advocating revolting ideas like paedophilia, for example?

testing987654321 · 22/03/2020 08:44

You can get a couple by registering.

VegetableMunge · 22/03/2020 08:44

As would I testing.

I just think if he didn't want to be all Stasi-esque and had some concerns about being seen to maintain a level of journalistic integrity, we passed that point quite a long time ago. Credibility has been and gone. And he'd stuck the boot in plenty on twitter before this letter.

Wonderbag · 22/03/2020 08:43

Great stuff!

PaleBlueMoonlight · 22/03/2020 08:39

I am grateful for the read, but we shouldn’t really copy whole articles (quotes/extracts are fine). We need to support the journalism.

Halfeatentoast · 22/03/2020 08:38

Ah what a nice little day of sunshine at an otherwise gloomy time. Thanks op.

testing987654321 · 22/03/2020 08:33

My reaction about Owen Jones was the same, I would have been amazed if he wasn't part of it.

teawamutu · 22/03/2020 08:31

Apropos of nothing at all, if you open links in an incognito tab it seems to reset the free article count to zero.

Just saying.

BovaryX · 22/03/2020 08:09

I don't understand why OJ is so keen to weasel out now. Surely this is very on brand for him?

Presumably because even someone as blinkered as Jones can see that being exposed as a signatory to a Stasi esque letter of denunciation against a colleague isn't a good look for a 'journalist.'

OP posts:
JohnRokesmith · 22/03/2020 08:02

Funnily enough, I was using the word “weasel” to describe Owen Jones earlier today...

VegetableMunge · 22/03/2020 07:47

I don't understand why OJ is so keen to weasel out now. Surely this is very on brand for him?

MingeofDeath · 22/03/2020 07:36

As mentioned in the article, a lot of IT types signed that letter. No wonder the trans agenda is so pervasive.

BovaryX · 22/03/2020 06:36

LaureBerthaud
Ha, thanks for explaining! Yes, who knows what they do when the Guardian is so bereft of actual news.....Like the Spiral name....

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LaureBerthaud · 22/03/2020 06:30

Bovary - I pressed select all then copy It meant I got lots of extra stuff I had to delete when I pasted here.

I share the writer's amazement that the 300+ signatories only make up a fifth of the Guardian workforce!

NonnyMouse1337 · 22/03/2020 06:18

I like how the term 'journalist' is used for Owen Jones. Grin

BovaryX · 22/03/2020 06:06

Laure
How did you manage that? I can't even copy a snippet of text from the Spectator since they changed their website....

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BovaryX · 22/03/2020 06:00

Great article, I’m off to get a subscription, it’s time to stop fighting the paywall

GrinBeer yes and they recently made it impossible to copy text, which is annoying! It is a great article, the Guardian invites ridicule and this letter of denunciation is such a grim look for an alleged serious newspaper in a liberal democracy.....

OP posts:
Lamahaha · 22/03/2020 05:56

Thank you LaureBerthaud and BitofFun!

Beerincomechampagnetastes · 22/03/2020 05:52

Great article, I’m off to get a subscription, it’s time to stop fighting the paywall.

BovaryX · 22/03/2020 05:48

His protests against the Mail are unlike anything any other 'journalist' I know would ever engage in. If instead of simply laughing at the Guardian, I headed to the paper's offices to shout at and otherwise intimidate the paper's staff in their place of work?

It's great to see Murray calling out alleged 'journalists' who have zero clue about freedom of speech....

OP posts:
LaureBerthaud · 22/03/2020 05:46

Xpost with BoF who can do it the clever way Grin

LaureBerthaud · 22/03/2020 05:44

Douglas Murray
The Guardian’s trans rights civil war rumbles on
21 March 2020, 5:55am
The Guardian's trans rights civil war rumbles onThe Guardian's trans rights civil war rumbles on
Text
Comments

At times of great stress it is necessary to find your enjoyments where you can. And as I mentioned in the magazine last week there are few joys in the world comparable with that which comes from watching the left eating itself. Which brings me to a small but diverting set of events which are rolling on at the Guardian.

Readers will remember that earlier this month that paper started to devour itself after the admirable columnist Suzanne Moore had the temerity to write a column about trans issues that did not exactly toe today’s leftist line on the issue. Hundreds of Moore’s colleagues signed a letter to the editor condemning Moore. Indeed the signatories comprised around a fifth of the total Guardian workforce. At which point many of you, like me, might be thinking ‘a fifth!’. How many ideological-enforcers does the Guardian need to produce a daily paper? What do these people do all day? Why isn’t the paper better?

Anyhow, the furore has been rumbling on and a justifiably angry Moore has published online the full list of signatories to the neo-Stasi like letter of denunciation.

The list makes fascinating reading. It is rather packed with people from the IT department. But those who signed the letter condemning their colleague’s right to free expression also includes the previously admirable Luke Harding, Ed Pilkington (the paper’s chief US reporter, who I had nevertheless always assumed to be a fictional character). Oh, and Owen Jones.

This last might come as particularly unsurprising news. Nevertheless, since having his name leaked as a signatory to the letter Jones has been trying to weasel out of it, saying his name was only added at the last minute and only digitally etc, as though the other signatories had all signed their names in blood during some late-night coven.

I don’t know why Jones is so coy about his name being found to be on the petition. After all Jones is the only ‘journalist’ in Britain that I can think of who has taken part in a demonstration outside the offices of a major national newspaper. His protests against the Mail are unlike anything any other ‘journalist’ I know would ever engage in. Imagine if instead of simply laughing at the Guardian I headed to the paper’s offices to shout at and otherwise intimidate the paper’s staff in their place of work? I think that would be regarded rather poorly, don’t you? And rightly so. So, as I say, it is hardly surprising that the boy Jones is on the list of people who believe Suzanne Moore doesn’t have the right to free expression.

In any case, I hope this rumbles on. During these difficult times it would be good if more of the Guardian staff distanced themselves from the petition. Or explained why it is unacceptable to have a feminist in their pages defending women’s rights.

And of course I am delighted and proud not just that the Spectator gave Moore space in our pages last week but that when we did so (and by the way Moore wrote an excellent Diary) there was not a peep of protest or objection from fellow Spectator contributors and staff. To date no Spectator-staff anti-Moore petition has emerged. Neither I, Rod Liddle, Jonathan Ray, or any of our comparatively tiny digital team responded to the Diary by discussing the need to get a petition together. That’s because at The Spectator we believe not just in free expression but know that free expression means that sometimes people say things with which you are in disagreement. It’s almost as though there is a lesson here somewhere for any leftists still wondering if they are in the right club on these issues.

WRITTEN BY
Douglas Murray

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